Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

22? They might as well work as clerks in Aldi then

@Liebig

The median graduate starting salary is 30k according to Google.

Yeah, the answer to this question, even when the OP is being pretty nice, is usually that it isn't as good a gig as you think it is and the pay needs to increase. That's the case here. If it can't increase, well, perhaps it's not viable.

He’s a software engineer, one the most in demand professions globally and also on the U.K. shortage occupation list.

Not all ‘graduate jobs’ are equal.

And ps this is in the legal field where the starting salaries are very healthy. Still the same attitude.

My dd has just finished her first year Marketing degree and I would be seriously annoyed with her if she went to an interview with that attitude.

@Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom I don't think it's low for Oop North. £22k there is about £29k in London with the weighting attached. And yes, as someone who trains grads too, I agree they're useless for at least the first year.

I've also found recent grads uninspiring.

I'm willing to give them a free pass on their grades because I understand some of the tuition in lockdown was wanting, and some of them had mental health problems created by the pandemic that meant they weren't at their best.

However, so many of them haven't bothered to tailor their applications. That's totally within their control. Their applications read like they just want a graduate job, any job. I don't think they've researched the role, the company or the sector.

Getting relevant work experience/any job in the last couple of years has been hard. But so many of them have done nothing... makes it hard for me to envisage any kind of work ethic. At least volunteer or something!

Could timing also be an issue? We hired our August intake of grads before last Christmas. We’re not in marketing but it’s similar in that they cost us for at least the first year. They qualify after a two year training program with us. However, we recruit based on potential and capability, ie we’re not looking for people to hit the ground running but those who will perform well in the medium to long term. So bit of an investment. Our starting salary is more than 26k with 6 monthly increases if they’re passing their exams etc.

My husband has a relatively recent degree and is looking to get into marketing, I just told him what’s on offer and he’d love to know more. Can you DM me the details please?

Marketing - we’re a big multi discipline agency and the grads rotate around disciplines for the first year while they figure out what they want to do. They get a grounding in everything from analytics to PR, creative, planning to SEM to web development. They pick where they want to go, then spend 12 weeks at each placement and have regular check ins so if after 2 weeks they hate a placement, they can pick something else and we find them a spot in anything they want to try.

Just got the scheme in front of me - after the first year, they can specialise, or they can be ‘floating resource’ which means they can continue bouncing around the agency looking for a good fit, except in their second year they get sent where resource is needed rather than being able to choose and the placements are often longer (6 months on average although most people find their fit in their first year). Once they settle in role, their wage increases to £28k and they become execs rather than trainees. Floating resource also goes to £28k. 6 months later they have a pay review where they increase to £30k and become senior execs. Next step is manager roles, usually a year after that and £35kish. They then have a review 6 months later (ish) and over the next year they’re generally around the £40k mark, so within 3-4 years they’re generally earning £40-50k if they’re good.

All of this is explained during recruitment and on reflection it’s a bloody good grad scheme.

I disagree, it’s the starting job in their career. Slavery ffs. I don’t expect them to stay for long, in fact I hope to promote them quickly into a better paid position with more responsibility. Or just get a great year of two out of them before waving them off happily to a better paid role. That’s how it’s always been - as PP have said, they need learn on the job hence the graduate salary rate. They need support. FWIW i doubled my graduate salary in 5 years but wouldn’t be where I am now without taking a lower graduate salary to start and if was working in a warehouse I’d still be on the same wage now.

You didn't specify. You said mean for ALL incomes, which is statistically pointless. If we're going for mean graduate, then that still means 50% get under that value.

And the salary listings for graduates are all way lower than that.

That should be median graduate, not mean.

As we see, there are plenty of industries that would be higher, such as finance or chemical engineering, and plenty that will be below that.

surprised you got any applications with salary especially as cost of living is rising.

And that's fine if a life working I supermarkets is what she's after. But if she wants a career in marketing then she'd be best off in an entry level marketing position even if the starting salary isn't great.

Unlimited annual leave?

Does that mean I could work for a week then take the next 50 weeks off? I want that job 😂

A job is an exchange of values not charity.
You are literally supposed to be impressing candidates if you want good ones. If you combine that entitled attitude with a low salary, the only serious applicants you will get are the ones who have been rejected by all the companies that understand that they're in a competition for workers.

My partner earns 120k a year doing strictly 9-5. With long lunches very low stress in IT. No wonder people can't be arsed killing themselves in jobs anymore

No it isn't. PhD computer scientist daughter of friends in North West with a year's experience isn't earning 30k yet.

Hardly surprised when we see the cost of everything and the unattainable housing etc

I think you need to diversify your intake. We have just started an excellent graduate and have had some great post A Level apprentices - I think we pay about the same as you pay your graduates. Is there a clear career route and do you pay for Masters and professional qualifications / study leave or other perks (Summer Fridays, performance bonus, health insurance, sports teams, meals out or weekends away)? Perhaps you could run a returners scheme - the high holiday offer may go down well with parents post career break.

Sorry op I've just RTFT and can see you've opened the role to non grads. Which is great!

The job sounds amazing, by the way.

But you're not going to get anyone with experience, even minimal, either. If you can't get a grad with zero experience, you won't get someone with experience for just a bit more money.

@DillAte as I pointed out in my follow up comment, I’m in the legal industry and the starting salaries are eye wateringly high. They need to impress. Year on year they’re getting worse - just my observation.

Just a thought on the unlimited holiday - do they realise what a benefit it really is?? If they have never worked, they don't understand how limiting 20 days plus bank holidays can be.
It sounds like a good grad scheme.