Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Out of interest how much leave do people actually take, in average?

Because really, wages are overall a joke in this country compared to the cost of living. A lot of it comes down to greedy CEOs taking millions but paying staff close to nothing.

Many people aren't arsed about progression after COVID. With furlough etc people have changed their thinking. They think I can work with little stress and get what I need. Speaking to people they definitely feel less enthusiastic about the corporate career ladder probably a side effect from COVID.

Yeah, the mean is. Heavily skewed and useless as it is.

The median is £31k.

People saying 22K is low,gosh!

Manchester university does 1 year internships for graduates in most fields and pays them 19-20K-- ive seen a lot of them and they are some of the most motivated, responsible, career-minded young people I've ever met.

A grade 3 role at the UoM pays 21-24K and interns are classed grade 2.

OP it sounds like you are just getting some bad candidates.

So even if the salary is low, OP still can't expect basic manners? I agree with the PPs who mention the fact that children are brought up to believe the world owes them a living I'm afraid.

They’re telling you about their mental health because most universities bend over backwards to accommodate them, with extensions to deadlines, extra supports etc. Some of which is genuine & much needed, but some of which is dubious. They’re likely expecting similar accommodations at work. As a PP said, I’ve sometimes wondered how the students who routinely needed extensions because of their ‘mental health’ fared in the workplace afterwards. This is an insight.

Nobody has a guaranteed trajectory. Most of us would give our right arm to be guaranteed three years work, who will make such a commitment; civil service due to lose 91,000 roles, banks trying to move to employee-free working, retail trying to persuade customers to go online ...

Message received and it’s been really helpful, thanks all.

I agree the salary is low, but given they don’t produce any kind of return for the business for a year and are essentially a cost for that time, it’s going to be a difficult sell to get the bracket moved higher.

Unfortunately it might mean rethinking our hiring policy and just not hiring grads and training them - instead hiring candidates with minimal experience who can function right away which just goes against the whole ethos of the project. The whole point was to give people a shot who had no experience, none related degrees for the most part but the right attitude and good work ethic who we could bring in and develop. If they’re not seeing the value of free training and we’d have to pay them
£28k, I can’t see the business agreeing to continue the program.

I also think that many of them aren't as good as they look on paper because a ridiculous number now get firsts so that academic attainment is pretty meaningless. The quality between those who scraped a first to those at the very top end will be significant but, of course, on a cv they look to be the same.

If you're not requesting a specific degree, I'm another who'd suggest doing away with the requirement altogether- depending on Uni and course some of them aren't worth having anyway

You'll still get dross and even the best may be little use in their first year, but at least you'll avoid so much over-entitlement

what industry is this if it’s ok to ask ? I get a lot of this recruiting law graduates , some also come from a family of people on the field and they are snobbish , arrogant and a bit useless . This being said I always manage to find some “ good ones “ . Have you tried older graduates ? I find they have so much more life knowledge and common sense and above all initiative

Yep I've definitely seen more of this.

We take degree apprenticeship students in their year in industry on a separate part of the business - I’ve never not offered one a job after they’re finished they’re always absolutely brilliant.

If they don't produce a return for a year then you have a very inefficient system.

They should be trained up in Max 3 months to be able to start taking on small projects or contribute to bigger team efforts. How on earth are you managing them so that a full year they don't bring a return?

If you’re not paying a huge amount (eg law and finance suck the bright grads motivated by money) it helps to be mission driven in some way. In my old job I used to have countless straight A* candidates with relevant masters and impressive volunteering. It made my job an absolute dream as I had wonderfully motivated young people whose main issue was working too hard (had to keep telling them to log off). My husband on the other hand can’t recruit decent grads in his sector and thinks everyone he’s interviewed recently has been a bit crap. He’d have loved to have had some of my candidates.

How about you open up the role to some bright young things that have thought outside the box and opted NOT to go to Uni and instead get some valuable work experience instead?

(Sorry that was badly written, I hope it makes some sense though!)

With the way that everything is going up, 22k is barely enough to live on.

many people have no choice but to manage on that amount of money!

One of my DDs was the same OP

This was before her A-levels. Despite my efforts of raising her, DD1 is the complete opposite. Both have worked in summer jobs and DD2 has come to her senses. I’ve long been telling her the world doesn’t work the way she expects.

Money is terrible, it's a job seekers market.

You could earn more at Aldi...

The UK has next to no talent available, it’s got more idiots then talent. As such, my business has recruited in South Africa and Malaysia as they are hard working and work without the usual BS of complaining about everything or spending hours talking instead of working.

Graduates? Half of them take courses which are just worthless.

Funny you should mention progression - they offered me a junior manager's job after only eight months in the job.

For no extra money. Then at the next level on from that you get £1.50 more an hour...the dizzy heights!

It was all I could do not to laugh as I turned it down. Shit loads of stress, dealing with people's egos and temper tantrums and petty arguments and total flexibility demanded for not a penny more. Companies these days want the moon on a fucking stick and for free as well. No I don't think so, ta. I may be thick but not that thick!

Ours are getting worse and worse every year.
No one appears willing to put in the time / effort / prove themselves any more. It seems they all expect it handed to them on a plate, and we’re supposed to be impressing them.

Trained up in 3 months? Sounds like an idiots job if that’s the case. True talent takes time to grow.