Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

With jobs that actually pay well?
The best people have a choice
They’re not willing to put up with low pay to ‘get a foot’ on the ladder.

There’s also a larger exchange of information. Even as a graduate there are online forums, seniors in uni and LinkedIn, lots of avenues. It’s not hard to see what jobs actually pay and go for the more £££ ones.

Also @Dontwanttoberudeorwastetime the amount of work that today’s graduates have to do for top jobs has also increased.
In my FIL’s generation they could cruise through drinking, get a third, and still walk into a graduate job (graduate = well paid).

Nowadays all sorts of jobs are labelled graduate jobs even if they’re not really. Graduates are expected to have done lots of relevant work experience alongside the degree. Not just work in a shop during the summer. Many have also had placements.

The standards are higher. People aren’t just joining with zero experience anymore.

it can be an inherently frustrating and patronising thing to basically be told that the company will choose how part of your renumeration is spent.

Wow, talk about finding a way to put a negative spin on everything! Poor lambs feeling patronised by their generous benefits package!

It doesn't matter how much the benefits are worth when you are trying to get a mortgage you get 4 x salary - not 4 x salary plus benefits.

In which case, why even apply for a £22k job? If it’s so easy to get a higher paid job?

Also @Dontwanttoberudeorwastetime the amount of work that today’s graduates have to do for top jobs has also increased.
In my FIL’s generation they could cruise through drinking, get a third, and still walk into a graduate job (graduate = well paid).

This actually made me laugh out loud. So thanks

If you can't see why this isn't optimum, despite a number of posts explaining the issue with benefits over cash and indeed the OP agreeing it would be a good idea to change things, the issue is your insistence on a positive spin.

People like spending money how they want to spend it, not on things their employer has chosen on their behalf. That's just how it is.

I’m not going to comment on the OP’s post because with the full package It might actually be competitive.

But reading comprehension : the best graduates. It’s easy, for the best.

Why do you have to resort to insulting my intelligence?
I have a MA in Applied Linguistics.
The patronising really just demeans us both.

The difficulty is knowing and demonstrating your worth when you have no track record. Make yourself a superstar at work and people will trip over themselves to keep you - in this market especially. But a lackluster performance with a pay me what I'm worth attitude will have them showing you the door ASAP!

Totally agree.

You set the tone. No need to get upset when people respond in kind.
MA in Linguistics indeed… then you really should know better.

My kids are grads in their 20s and I w have grad jobs. They got more starting wage than the OPs job but I still think the OPs job sounds good. The holiday leave thing is a massive massive benefit and the job sounds great. It's a proper grad job. It could be a few more thousand a year but it's ok. I like the fact that if employees are working excess hours it's flagged and looked at. One of my sons is doing a financial grad job and the culture is for grads to work ridiculously hard. The partners seem happy for them to do that 😡😡😡
I had a look at grad marketing job ads in Manchester and it doesn't stand out as being really badly paid. There are plenty lower.
However I wonder if it would be better for the company to pay more and attract better candidates.

I also think you might just have been unlucky with who you have interviewed.

@OooErrAre you involved in grad recruitment?

Also, what is the difference between a grad job and a non-grad job?

MA in Linguistics indeed… then you really should know better.

Sorry, you’re going to need to elaborate on this. Me being so thick and old and all 😂

People need to think more widely. Yes the 22k is quite low but it's a starting salary not a finishing salary. She has outlined the training plan which sounds excellent, she has also pointed out that they'll earn more money as they move along and will be earning close to £50k within about 3-4 years. you can't compare it to an admin or supermarket job, you're investing in short term lowish salary for an ability to maximise income at a later date.

My graduate son would be an absolute asset

He's currently in a 20k job with limited progression at the moment...but is a bit tied to where we live otherwise I'd send you his cv ...he'd love the holiday 😀 (partner is a teacher)

really? So did I on one of the top grad programmes and it was on 16500 with london weighting ending up at about 25 about 3 years later. The buying and merchandising jobs at the time in london was more like £12-14. The accountants at the big 5 as they were, weren't even on 24 when they started

I'm not sure what is going on over there in the UK, but you need my sons and their friends. We are in Australia , but everyone has just moved on. Uni was done remotely but that was the only concession I am aware of.My 21yo is already employed in his field, although he hasn't finished his degree yet ; as are most of his friends and my older son and his friends are all in high demand. They are hardworking and have travelled extensively before Covid . The 21yo's are planning their big trips now for next year when they finish uni or delaying a semester. They all have walked into great jobs where they work very hard .
I think you must be underpaying.
For example my 21yo is earning $37k AUD ( roughly 21 k pounds) but only works 3 days a week and has 18 months to go to graduation ( it is a double degree though).

The salary is uncompetitive. The good graduates won't be interviewing for you.

I'm outside of London and the administrators where I work get 23k as a starting salary. No degree or experience necessary. Our newest administrator is 18, has just left school and is out-earning your graduates. She's not spent a year being useless either, just a few months in and she's brilliant. I'm a level just above administrator, half of us have degrees, the other half progressed from administrator after a year or two. Starting salary is now around 28k.

I'm thinking salaries must be lower in the UK as my 27yo earns just over 100 $AUD which is about 58k pounds which I think is a good salary there? . It's hard to tell with the different prices of things.
OP if you aren't attracting any good candidates you need to change either
your ad
your job appeal
your salary offer
your expectations
your marketing strategy

Sorry @Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom have to agree with so many previous posters, the pay is not enough to live on comfortably, and the prospects not that promising. I started on lower than 22k years ago (but not much lower) but I had plenty of money to rent a nice room in a house in a capital city, money for clothes, holidays and entertainment, nights out etc. wasn’t even a graduate at the time so no student debt. Worked 9-5. Graduates are probably no longer falling for the foot on the ladder fallacy, because the truth is there isn’t an obvious career pathway upwards to earning enough to achieve even the middle class basics in life in marketing generally (own home, car, children, holidays). There are some very senior roles that pay well enough sure, but not many and no guaranteed pathways to get there. It’s very easy to get stuck on a middling to poor income in marketing, and it’s a demanding career.

If I had to make my way now I would go directly to a profession like accountancy, maybe law, banking, or the really structured graduate programmes with the big 5. There are probably lots of would-be marketing geniuses out there quite sensibly deciding that a career in marketing is not a luxury they can afford, even if it would suit them better.

Now it’s no longer a recruiters market, but the recruitment is probably being carried out by people like yourself who came up in a world where graduates would be really competing for these roles, so there’s a mismatch. The sooner you and your colleagues accept that it’s now you who is competing for them, and adjust your offer and your pitch accordingly the better. And the whole “paying them 22k while they’re still not much use” perspective is probably unhelpful and slightly unrealistic, if you have a good training/mentorship programme you will be able to gain value from they bring to the table almost immediately.

Many of them don't have the skills or fortitude for the workplace.
I speak as someone who didn't!!!
And yet school leavers would?

I think a school leaver would probably be a better prospect than a graduate who thought that their 2:1 or 'masters' made them better than someone else.

I have a young colleague with a Masters, who thinks they know everything, has a meltdown on any constructive criticism and flounces off on sick leave far too often. This colleague could be trained, although does lack some of the essential skills, but in reality they'd be better off doing something better suited to their temperament.

It’s not my day job. But I work closely with early careers teams. Doing outreach events, interviews, giving input on the format of our assessments. This is to ensure we get the right talent.

A lot of our jobs, technical or otherwise don’t really need a degree.
We also hire a lot of apprentices, they get on-the-job training, professional qualifications. They can do a paid for degree if they wish as a top-up qualification, but it makes no difference to the job. By the time they’re 23 they’ve had 4+ years experience, relevant qualifications and have no issues getting promoted or jobs elsewhere.

@Holidaydreamingagain
Completely agree with you.
My DH started in an investment bank in 1993 (so 29 years ago) and that was on £20k a year - which was top dollar. None of his peers (graduates in comp sci from Warwick) earnt more than that.