Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

The alternative is that the employer ditches the graduate scheme and graduate jobs altogether - they are pretty resource intensive - and focuses on professional hires for £40-50k to contribute more straight away.

I'm not sure it always makes commercial sense to hire grads or inexperienced people, it isn't really a cheaper option what with the training and supervision needed.

Why do you think most companies of a certain size have grad schemes? It isn't philanthropy, I assure you. If the OP's company is stupid enough to stop hiring junior staff, they'll pay for it. And it'll cost them a lot more than five piddling grad salaries.

You can repeat it. It doesn’t make it any more true.
Companies will just ditch grad schemes. They will start employing people straight from A-Level or people with work experience on trainee schemes.

I've just looked on Indeed and there are scores of graduate marketing jobs including in London, with a starting salary of between 19-25k, so OPs salary is not off target. Bright graduates will know they upgrade the salary swiftly as they progress with skills and industry knowhow.

I think it's a fallout of the pandemic - they haven't had the social development uni usually offers. They've been stuck on Zoom instead of in lecture halls and seminar rooms, either living back in the family home or in some small student bubble not of their choosing, with all societies and clubs closed. It's been especially grim for this year's cohort of graduates who were affected for two years. They didn't get the experience they deserved and it has affected them.

Of course it's true. I can't help you if you're stuck in dinosaur mode.

Are you an employer?

Well I don't hire graduates in my profession... which is business related. Yet we are able to bring in people with two or three years related experience who normally hit the ground running.

The cost of running a graduate scheme isn't just the salaries, I can assure you.

Plenty of companies do just fine without grad schemes anyway. As if having a degree is the only defining factor for being successful in a career.

Yorkshirelass04 You don't seem to be comprehending my posts at all.

Dontwanttoberudeorwastetime Yes, I interview and hire people.

Perhaps it's because we have had different experiences of graduate hiring and graduate schemes. You do you.

I think even starting to recruit grads in March, never mind now, is far too late. All the strong candidates will have been scooped up months ago

We interviewed and offered our grads roles last October and they will start in September after graduating this summer

We do! We’re saying the average graduate (who hasn’t done voluntary work or internships) isn’t any more equipped to the job than an 18 year old fresh from A-Levels or a 21 year old who went into work instead of university. There are a few degrees and professions this is not true for, but on the whole, it’s a pretty fair assumption.
Now, if you’ve got a certain amount of money to put into the training and salary of one of these young people to enter to working environment, why would you pay a lot more salary for someone who isn’t any better equipped to do the job?

Dontwanttoberudeorwastetime Well no, that isn't the point we've been discussing at all. Grads vs non-grads-without-experience is a completely different topic. What you've been repeatedly saying is that the OP is doing these grads a favour by being willing to give them a job if they show suitable gratitude at interview. That's what I disagree with.

Also have you read the thread in AIBU about universities making accommodations and the general lack of fortitude and resilience amongst graduates?

It's not pretty reading. This feedback is from Russell group lecturers as well.

So again it's a question of value for money - I'd rather get someone in for £30k with no degree and more life experience.

But you haven't said why.

That’s EXACTLY what this thread is about! So much so that OP has even had a meeting with her management team to open up the role to non-graduates i.e getting rid of the graduate scheme. OP’s company was doing the graduates a favour by giving them the opportunity to interview for a job they have no experience in before anyone else.

So you think graduates develop literally zero skills during their degrees?

Many of them don't have the skills or fortitude for the workplace.
I speak as someone who didn't!!!

I would say, not especially more skilled than someone who has worked for three years. Obviously with some courses and professions excluded.

And yet school leavers would?

Dontwanttoberudeorwastetime I feel like I'm going mad here. Either that or you and the other one are having a separate conversation to the one I've been in. I'll leave you to it... Best of luck getting good candidates.

Well, no. That’s the point. They’re all on a pretty even playing field. There’s not enough between them to warrant a huge pay disparity.

I’m currently hiring for a charity role and I was discussing this with a friend’s teen daughter. The gist of her opinion was that most marketing jobs are ‘bullshit jobs’, which are promoting the consumerism that is wrecking the planet. She said that she would want a bigger salary than if she were in a more socially meaningful role, such as working for a cause she believed in.

So she'll do a consumerist job for more money?

Echoing other posters, £22k just isn't enough to get someone good nowadays.

The gist of her opinion was that most marketing jobs are ‘bullshit jobs’, which are promoting the consumerism that is wrecking the planet. She said that she would want a bigger salary than if she were in a more socially meaningful role, such as working for a cause she believed in.

Does she think that charities and other 'socially meaningful' causes don't spend a lot of money on engage in marketing?