Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

I noticed this in my profession in the public sector. The last few trainees have been dire. The most recent one accepted her first job even though she didn't like it at interview because she "couldn't be bothered to keep job hunting anymore". She later said she can always just quit straight away if she doesn't like it. The attitude is shocking. When I was a graduate ten years ago I was job hunting for months, went on so many interviews, and when i eventually got a job I stuck it out for the long haul even when things got difficult. And I only earned 17k pa. I had to start at the bottom.

We hire students and this year’s cohort have been frightening on the whole. The few who stand out though really, really shine.

Yeah, there are millennial grandparents ffs. If you're going to come out swinging you have to get with the programme!

To elaborate, it’s the combination of a complete lack on initiative with utter contempt at being shown how to do something. It’s quite a difficult balancing act as an employer.

Rent in the city is high DS and girlfriend are looking further out for somewhere further out you don't need to live on top of the job

Just a thought - do you run summer internships (paid). I think the students that have the gumption to get summer internships also are the types of attitude you are looking for in your grads

This. I am 40 and sick to death of Gen Z, sorry. if I were you I'd hire someone more experienced instead. There are plenty of non-grads / career changers / other humans who would be grateful for a good entry-level opportunity.

Why would someone stick out a crappy job for crappy pay when they don’t need to? Loyalty to an employer is for mugs.

Well on TikTok I know there's lots of people basically saying this generation refuses to be corporate slaves, interviews are for both parties, not to be pressured to do too much work for not enough money by a company that will easily replace you. Etc.

I think they're trying to change the game and make it more of a buyers market.

Can't see it working but I respect the end goal.

30k is only £2K less than my current salary. Started on £17k in 2018. I do think grad wages are shocking though tbf.

I recall when I started out in marketing I lived and breathed for the job. Ideas just poured out. It was such a buzz. Twenty five years later I was done. So I can understand taking on graduates

That’s just more of the same - actually the intern applications are wise!

Worse not wise!😳

But interviews are a two-way street and graduates often apply to multiple schemes as they're not sure what area they want to go into...

I wish more people realised this, I have 5 years of experience in tech across a few firms and only just come to recognise that the interview and probation period is for the applicant to decide if it’s also a good fit for them.

I live in London and my grad scheme started at £40k - I remember saying the pay was low to my peers and they looked at me like I was crazy.
That said my first out of university office job was £18k - I was there almost 2 years, I really low balled myself glad other are not making the same mistake.

So, he’ll be on a similar wage at that stage to the wage of the person of OP hires at that time.

I'm hiring at the moment for experienced professionals and would agree that something has changed.

People seem to be aware this is a buoyant market and employers are short of talent. This is leading to all sorts of higher expectations than 2 years ago.

Also, I've found that virtual interviews make the game harder. You can't gauge someone as well in the flesh. If someone has zero charisma or is not engaging it's much more noticeable online. People interviewing need the right energy on video which some lack.

I think £22k is fine for a grad wage as part of an upwards trajectory - there are a lot of others on that wage that are actually skilled and graft hard. Customer service and retail being examples

They can only do this if their parents facilitate it. It’s all well good sticking it to the man when someone else is slaving away to pay for the roof over your head and the food in your belly (and internet connection of course).

Yep, the OP seems to have forgotten (or never realised) that interviews are a two-way thing. It's obvious she thinks she's doing the grads a favour instead of finding people who can keep the business going and keep her in a job.

But the OP is doing the grads a favour if they want a career in marketing. If you want a professional wage you start learning the craft in a junior role. Then you build up your skill set and stakeholder network and go from there.

Yes you could stack shelves for £20k but that would lead to more shelf stacking as a
career or maybe a store supervisor / manager.

Why? Because when they graduate they have absolutely fuck all experience. They have a degree, but let's face it, every other 21 year old also has a degree. What makes your kid special? A degree ain't all that these days.

No, she isn't doing them a favour. Companies need them and they need a (decent) wage - nobody is doing anybody a favour. Except that it's a candidate's market right now, so if anybody needs to impress it's the OP, not the grads. And a shittty wage with a gimmicky leave policy isn't cutting it.

She is doing them a favour.
They have no experience. They’re complete novices and learning. It’s like an extra year at university that they get paid for.

What I mean is, if they want a career in marketing they need a marketing job. Not one stacking shelves for the same money.

When I graduated in 2005 marketing jobs were rare and id have bitten someone's hand off for £12k to work in that industry.

I wonder what the ratio of people wanting marketing graduate jobs and the number of jobs available is?

If he understands labour market economics he’s got a skill most people on this thread are clearly lacking

I can only repeat that she isn't doing them a favour. Companies need them and there's a big shortage of workers at the moment. That's why candidates aren't "biting her hand off", regardless of how keen you were almost two decades ago.