Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

@TuftyMarmoset YYY.

The starting salary determines your future earning power, and women in particular fi d themselves being lowballed. They often never recover to where their male counterparts start.

Grads would be insane to start so low.

It's all of the above I think. I've had the same issue, but in tech there's no real way of getting non grads. We had people cheating on the coding test in the dumbest way imaginable. If I were you I'd try offering apprenticeship instead.

OFGS PPs moaning that it's not a liveable wage aren't realistic in their expectations (outside of London) -

£22k is a take home of £1572 per month, enough to rent a £500 /month room in a shared house (not London) or less with a live in LL and to save if you only have yourself to cover (ie no DCs or other dependents), you can also run an inexpensive car on that and save some for a future deposit and it'd go up quickly as OP said to £30k (take home of £2017 per month date tax and NI )

I'm suggesting your salary is going to restrict their future choices. Women in particular have hopefully woken up to this massive impediment in their path and won't just sit back and accept it.

If you want truly ambitious candidates you are going to have to go higher. Truly ambitious candidates are those who fancy their chances in the big pool, not those content to just move within your organisation.

Even up north a £500 room gets you a shit hole. 10 years ago I was paying £450 up north for a house share and almost £400 for a shit student flat 15 years ago.

This

£22k is far too low to attract talented graduates.

How do you work that out? £19k is above minimum wage which is £9.18/hr for a 21-22 Yr old. £9.18 x 7hr day x 5 day week x 52 weeks = £16,707

A graduate with no experience straight out of uni coming into a journalism job in the South East would start on about £17k. Then the pay would increase as they get more experience.

We removed the bonus and paid more upfront - I think they have no idea how valuable the bonus is…why would they?

But it really isn't a salary or a job that needs degree level skills. I am 66, and loads of clever girls from my class (1974) took entry level jobs in professional legal and accountancy offices and qualified on the job while earning, and have great jobs and started businesses, earn well -- but not investment banking jobs. A handful of us went to university, and by and large, we were the top 5% of the population. In the days before CSE and O level were conflated, O levels were much more demanding, and A levels were equivalent to the first year of university today, perhaps less so in science subjects.

I’ve sent you a PM.

I do think sometimes you forget about years of inflation and how things have moved on. 20 years ago as a graduate I was earning £22k. Therefore, from a knee-jerk response you might initially think £30k is a great salary. We recently benchmarked our graduate jobs and they are about £37k. That works out as 2.5% wage growth each year for 20 years from when I started, which seems about right.

DC with science masters (and a successful year in industry doing dream role) has been told that £25k is a reasonable starting salary - niece, freshly out of sixth form is just about to start an apprenticeship on ... £25k.

Even up north a £500 room gets you a shit hole. 10 years ago I was paying £450 up north for a house share and almost £400 for a shit student flat 15 years ago.

I've literally just moved into a 2bed flat that's pretty big and nicely done and that's £500 a month so not at all true it gets you a shit hole. And I'm in Liverpool so literally right next to Manchester.

Can I have this job please? I am sold on the unlimited annual leave whatever they say!

My three children worked bloody hard to get into decent Uni and two gain 2:1 and one a 1st . The only one who has accepted a low pay post grad course was the one really passionate about ecology..he still started on 20k five years ago …he is now on 30k .
The son who got a 1st in economics would not even consider a job for less than 30 k …why should he ? !!

I think most people on here need to give their heads a good wobble.

More than £22k for a job they've never done, with no experience in? Whatever happened to working your way up and getting 2 good years of experience in? After that, you can earn so much more but why should you start at such a high salary, with no proof of your ability?

Why should OP pay them more? What have they done to prove they are worthy? Graduates are 10 a penny these days - and with worthless degrees, many of them.

Mums with heaps of marketing experience, I'm talking decades' worth I often see applying for roles offering £15 per hour in marketing and 'freelance' at that - that basically means no pension, no holiday pay, no NI, no sick pay. It's the same as minimum wage.

OP find yourself two hungry eager stay at home Mums who are gagging to get back into the industry.

Forget about graduates who all seem to come from the same 'wannabe-an-influencer' crowd.

I'd roll my eyes too with what you've described in your opening post.

I would also bite your hand off for this! Alas I'm near London.

Would you take a 35 year old applicant who didn’t complete their finance degree from Durham uni solely because they had a severely premature baby?

14 years of experience in the banking sector for a very large and reputable bank.

I’ll take the pay cut for the opportunity to actually go further in my life in a field that has always interested me.

I think your job sounds perfect for me. Especially with no transport costs, and I already have a home office

I know! I can’t believe what I’m reading. I graduated in 2001 and my starting salary was £9,500. I’ve just checked the minimum wage back then, in case I’d been sold in to slavery but no, minimum wage was £3.60.

I started as a graduate in Marketing. 22k really is low as it's the most stressful, ghastly career one can start in. I was underpaid, overworked and had your typical marketing burn-out by 25. Just like my predecessor in the role.

Marketing and media agencies are obsessed with graduate slave-labour. The young uns' haven't had kids yet and no one's waiting for them at home, so they're fair game for the "night shifts".

Ugh. Touched a nerve.

Can I apply? 😂
I've got a good social media and marketing background but no degree and I'm in Scotland if you'd like a remote worker.

I get that £22k is fairly low but if there's the chance of earning £30k within a few year, I would think it would be a stepping stone.

The son who got a 1st in economics would not even consider a job for less than 30 k …why should he ? !!

What entitles him to it? Going to uni? There's many people on less than that with years more experience. Sounds like a shit attitude to have.

Why should OP pay them more?

Because that’s how capitalism works? The labour market is very tight and that’s what you need to do to find employees.

YANBU.

@NoGonnaLie are 10 a penny these days - and with worthless degrees, many of them.

And yet here the OP is struggling to recruit one for the salary she is prepared to pay.