Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

I would fucking love 22k a year. I'm currently on 19.3k and it's the highest paying role I've ever had to date and I have a degree.

This really isn’t a typical career progression, even in the north. It took me 2 years to go from 18k to 25k in the north, small town manufacturing office and that was close to 10 years ago!

You're offering a low starting salary.

If they want to move out of the north - say to the SE - they're up against people with London and SE starting salaries in their salary history when they start applying for jobs elsewhere.

Your assumption that people are going to stay in the same region for their entire careers is not necessarily true.

A graduate scheme I was on recently my cohort peers, christ, they were bad. Moaning they only had £1.5k to live on a month after they paid their car insurance and £100 rent to mum and dad to live at home. Their attitude really astounded me😂FYI they lived at home, paid no other bills AT ALL. I was on about £200 after all my bills and that was to pay for food, fuel and any other costs for my family incl child.

One graduate student didn't like the work and had their mum ring up to complain. This was a 22 year old 😂

What PPs have said about attitude and expectations is really interesting. I have offered a couple of weeks' work on my current project to a friend's 18yo daughter. It's a genuinely cool and interesting thing to be doing, involving travelling, using her language skills, and I'm assured that she is keen. But "she doesn't really do phones" so it's all by message so far, and her mum (who I've always thought of as loving and supportive but quite tough in her parenting style) surprised me by telling me all sorts of things about how I ought to handle her - e.g. when we're away, I need to ring her in the morning to make sure she's awake, and always tell her we need to leave earlier than we do, as she's not great with timekeeping....

Just. No. If I am offering her an experience that will look brilliant on her cv, and that she's eager to do, then no.

@Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom I have pm you

Given that you acknowledge you don't really need degree level qualifications to start training a person to do the job you're offering, would it not make sense to offer the same money to a candidate with high A level grades, who would qualify for university, but who prefers to avoid the £50k debt. IMVHO, that person haas a lot more nous than the one choosing the university experience. Load it with training and enrichment specific to your sector, for their first three years of employment, for two days a week day release.

I just find it hard to believe graduate salaries have risen so little when home prices/rent are so much now? How can a graduate rent a 1 bed flat on 22 k a year.In 1999 my friend started on 18500 in London but we shared a flat in Brixton that was 525 pounds a month so you could save up and buy a 2 bed flat in Crystal Palace for 75000 so the maths worked out back then. So glad I no longer live in the UK with these salaries and then absurd housing market-I feel sorry for the graduates frankly.

At no point have I made this assumption. In fact, we lose more grads to our London office than anywhere else. It’s really annoying. They get weighted for London though if they transfer. You can’t transfer in your first 2 years but after that you can work from any office in the world (58 countries) either keeping your current role or transferring to a locaL market role if one is available.

Milennials are the most entitled generation ever. End of.

@Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom when you put into the the FULL salary package it actually sounds quite a bit more. Paying for utilities, transport.

Unfortunately it might not be as preferable as cash in hand - presumably those are taxable benefits as well? Also not sure whether people are really aware that it’s almost a guaranteed 30K increase within 18 months. Saying ‘potential for’ seems like the company will come up with some excuse to avoid paying .

Looks like a decent gig. I’d really suggest removing all the perks and putting it into the headline salary though. It’s cheaper for you, and more attractive for candidates.

You're offering about 1.8k per month.

There are nannies straight off the boat from Poland making twice that where I live.

With the level of debt these young people end up being saddled with after uni, they have probably applied for the jobs with a decent starting salary - I.e one that you can actually live off and not have to rely on your parents to house you.

There is another thread tonight about university students and their mental health, extensions of deadlines. I think it sums up why you are experiencing issues.

They don’t. Graduates live in glorified student houses for years and try to wrap it up in a dreamy bow by convincing themselves it’s okay, it will be just like the sitcoms.
The move from shit flat to shit flat, with terrible roommates and go on strings of tinder dates in the hope they will find something they don’t hate so they can combine their pitiful salaries and finally live the dream of renting a 1 bed together.

I totally agree and it’s a line I’ve been pushing for ages. Literally today I managed to get sign off and open the role to non-grads.

Literally anyone with a decent head for numbers and half decent comms could do this job well as long as they come with good attitudes and want to learn.

Well I think it sounds a super opportunity, it's a graduate entry training in the job post to attest career in marketing, where OP says they can effectively increase their wages by 45% after 2 years- to £30k1 presumably when they know what they are doing and are skilled up.

And then potentially more than double their wages to nearer £50k, all with training on the job.

My field starts on about £5k above that starting wage with far longer AND specialist training and placements you have to pass.

Some of us did 5 years training for our careers (ie specific degree for 3 or 4 years or a related degree + a masters post grad professional qualification ) and all of us have to do 2 years post qualifying in-house portfolio training years with no wage rises & then more training after then.

And I'm not earning £50k a year 22 years as that's very hard to get in my career until you move into very senior management - despite the stress , seniority and responsibility of my chosen career (which is highly respected) and I have several other post grad qualifications done whilst working necessary for aspects of my role !!!

Have you any suggested links to what marketing and types you can go into is about OP? As it might be an option my youngest would enjoy as she's creative inventive and has excellent English, Art, D&T, computing / media and maths skills.

I think I might be about to disappear down a rabbit hole of looking marketing as a career up!

Irrelevant. These grads aren’t millenials. They’re gen Z.

Ironic considering it was the generations before who could buy a large family home from the income of a job they fell into as a teenager with limited training and probably supporting a an entire family on one wage too.

These aren’t millennials, they’re gen z-ers. Millennials are about 40 now love

@Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom - but what if they don't want to go to your London office?

What if they want to go to another firm?

The package is too good for 22k, and the extra tax on healthcare alone is a big knock when starting out. I remember asking not to have it as a grad 25 years ago (on a similar wage) when rents were nothing like they are now.

It sounds like an excellent scheme, a gem of an opportunity to get great training and build contacts within the firm. And a graduate with a spark of ambition should see that.
I hope you find who you are looking for.

Then they leave and get another job? Are you suggesting we pay London salaries to grads who live in Manchester because they might one day like to work in London?

Not in the south and in journalism.either.

That might be a good point - the benefits are just blanket across everyone so maybe if we remove those for grads but you the salary that might be better? It would probably soften the blow for the business too.