Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Most grads do not see this as a perk. They want to work and get paid for it. Not sit on their arses struggling to pay their rent,

something Is wrong in your approach, the kind of young grad who is enticed by only working ten months a year and a low salary is either got family commitments or isn’t motivated,or has no other choice

we do timesheets (automated), if an employee works above 40 hours a week more than 5 weeks in a row it gets flagged to me and I have to have to cross reference against task tracking and if it’s clear someone is over working, we have a discussion about work load.

The idea being that there will always be weeks where you need to put more hours in but that it shouldn’t be sustained. If there’s a resource gap somewhere Rita really easy to identify - like I said our product is our time, so it’s usually because we’re over servicing a client somewhere that needs reigning in.

@Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom, throw out a wider net.

I suggest you try contacting The Robert Gordon University about your vacancies. I met one of their 2022 Marketing grads in a clothing store where she was working, got chatting and as soon as she heard that my dc had done the same degree and is now working in advertising and marketing, asked for her name so she could make contact on social media. While your entry level salary isn't great, the progress within two years is an incentive for someone undertaking what is in effect an apprenticeship. YANBU.

Exec level in education, tiny bit younger than you OP so hopefully not "out of touch" either. It's the pitiful wage, we've had some absolutely amazing hires recently, mixture of graduates and people with more experience - but we offer a very good wage and will increase it if we really want that person for the role.

It would be much more efficient to train specialist who learn cross-channel skills while working their specialism. This is coming from someone who has experience in the industry.

There's literally no point in taking a year to give them rotations like this, if they're bright they'll pick it up in no time as they go. I've worked in 5+ places including 4 agencies (including the top 2 global ones) and never seen an approach like this.

Although in all fairness it would have been nice to have a year to piss about and be hand held, I doubt it would have taught me much though.

Can you even afford to run a graduate scheme OP? Have you positioned this as a graduate scheme rather than a graduate job?

You can’t compare the two. Graduate schemes are meant to groom future talent. Yes they don’t exactly make you £££ in the first year but they’re supposed to be future leaders of the business. As opposed to rising through the ranks. Our graduate scheme pays 30K+ , takes people from any degree. They receive leadership coaching, mentoring from senior leaders. They’re not guaranteed a promotion but many apply for, and get it within a year of completing the scheme.

It’s the cost of talent

"The idea being that there will always be weeks where you need to put more hours in but that it shouldn’t be sustained." - do you actually PAY them for the more hours they work? or offer TOIL?

You. Are. Exploiting. People.

This is a very frustrating thread. The grads will be on better salaries AS THEY PROGRESS. And probably quite quickly!

@Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom wow, I’d have jumped at this a few years ago!

I started off at a north west marketing agency straight out of uni on £17k. I’d have bitten your hand off for £22k, although with cost of living increases I can see why some people think this is a low salary. But it is certainly a very standard salary in the north for what is essentially and entry level/junior role though.

I agree with PPs that a lot of the best candidates may already have roles lined up.

Oh, and how amazing that you offer unlimited AL! I now work remotely for a tech company and they offer this. It’s an incredible perk which is sadly still seen as a red flag by many (as evidenced on this thread). I honestly don’t think I could go back to having a set number of days now 😆

There are other benefits - the posters here just fixated on the annual leave thing.

That said, we’ve found it’s really popular with people who want to do some travelling after uni but need an income to support it - I’d say 3 in 5 each year tend to live at home and disappear off on long breaks to far flung places every couple of months. Then after a year their holidays get less frequent/ less adventurous and they tend to move out fairly soon after that. Within another year I’d say usually.

Funnily enough the most popular benefit we get asked about is the gym and free food!

Actually, what makes frustrating reading is the people who think that £22 with the idea that maybe there will be more at the end of the rainbow is an acceptable pay for graduates. That was my entry level job in 2002, and in an industry that pays notoriously bad.

*badly

There are fewer jobs.

The better graduates are going for those who have realised they have to increase the starting pay because things have changed, very fast.

You are left with the rest who, to be fair, have been through a difficult time in education.

It doesn't sound like you've changed your way of thinking at all from what "you've always done".

My sons rent went up by £100 a month this month. And then there are the utilities on top. And there are more jobs than workers.

You HAVE to offer

More to get the best apply.

"Funnily enough the most popular benefit we get asked about is the gym and free food!" - i mea, yes they ask about the free food because they can barely afford the shopping with what you are paying them - when is the fucking penny going to drop? Manchester is one of the most expensive cities in the UK now, rents second only to London.

My point is the assumption that was made in the original comment that I replied to. You can’t make numbers up out of thin air, because on the flip side, 35 hours a week could be the number…we would need to know more to actually know where the figures are.

but yes, 8:30 - 16:00 with 2 breaks and a half hour lunch…I’m not paid a high salary, but for the fact I actually do only do 35 hours, and much of that is very low stress and low targets, I am very much well paid.

my only point was that a previous poster made an assumption, but we didn’t have enough info to make that assumption, so used my case as an example

You know what? When I started in work you had to suck everything up: sexism, including groping, having to treat your boss like he (it was usually he) was God, however useless and lazy he was, poor conditions, having to be endlessly grateful for the fact they were employing you. Having to stick at an awful job for too long in case you looked flaky. If the pendulum has swung a bit in the other direction, it's not a bad thing.

Maybe don't go for the all singing, all dancing types, find people who might be a bit more grateful for what you're offering.

I can't seem to pm you no idea how if you send me one I think I can reply. I've never sent one before. Sorry

@SoManyQuestionsHere Yep. I routinely deal with students who have it as a core part of their ‘learning plans’ that they shouldn’t be expected to interact in seminars, work in groups with others, or be asked a direct question by the teacher, because ‘anxiety’. It’s ridiculous. It’s a humanities subject. It’s explicitly stated in our prospectus & at all open days that ours is a discussion and debate-driven education, with the seminar at the heart of it. Not especially wanting to participate is one thing, but to have it such that lecturers are explicitly barred from expecting interaction from you?! So many of these students must struggle in the real world and universities don’t help them.

The salary isnf great.
My sister has just started a graduate job in marketing and had no previous work experience except for her degree so learning on the job.
Were in wales and her starting salary is 26k.

I don’t understand these comments. I work for an investment company in central London and entry level salary is 21k! Everyone knows you can work your way up to very big salaries, but you start with that.

Isn't*
She works from home with one day a week in the office. 9 until 5 with an hour lunch.

If a 35 hour week is exploitation then you’re going to FLIP when you hear what the average full time contract is

I’d say it’s the low pay £22k isn’t even £11 an hour and you’ll find those grads will have had pt jobs earning more even £30k is only £15ph

My DS has worked every holiday for the past three years, he did two jobs one in his field and hospitality in the evening. His girlfriend did too. It's important for two reasons.

Money for the nice things in life

Socialisation to give them confidence.

Their world came crashing down March 2020 . Home working until September 2nd year more of the same ditto third year. They hardly got to know their lecturers one lecturer went back to NYC march 2020 has never returned but is still employed spitting out you tube tutorials for two years. They haven't formed strong bonds with other students, they're the lost ones