To think that toddlers don’t need screens when they’re out and about?

[anotherscroller]

From the other “things you find rude and others don’t” thread, but it’s quite a big one so I thought it could have its own thread.

Here goes:
People who give their toddlers (let’s say 18 months to age 4) tablets/phones to watch tv on in public during incredibly short interludes of time.
e.g. A train journey of less than an hour, a bus ride, while they’re ordering coffee at a café, at the bus stop. While they’re in their buggy being driven back from nursery! That one blows my mind.
If it’s a long haul flight I do it myself, but I think such young children don’t need a screen entertaining them the whole time. AIBU? They are interested in trees, ants, the contents of your bag, playing beekaboo with your sun hat, everything. Watching the world go by.
EXCEPTION: Unless they have, or their caregivers has, a health condition that requires it, makes life easier, make life worth living..

Why do I find it rude?
In the same why I find anything where people are shutting themselves off from other people in public and not being aware of others. Even with headphones on. With toddlers, as an adult with my own toddler, I feel like they and people around them are being deprived of the opportunity to “be present” together. My toddler always wants to be curious about a child on the next table, show them her teddy, or something, and nine times out of ten they can’t because said child is completely lobotomised in front of an iPad.
i think part of being a parent is creatively keeping small children occupied during a waiting time.
i think part of being a child is learning how to be ok with boredom or waiting time, and not constantly having flashy tv to watch.
AIBU?

@anotherscroller
You are absolutely correct and I note that, in your opening post, you did refer to exceptions.
Nonetheless, that hasn't stopped others trotting along with their 'whataboutery.'
As for those condemning you for judging-if indeed you are-then I do think that a little more judgement in our society wouldn't go amiss.
I judge shit behaviour-because most of the time there are no special circumstances-just shit behaviour emboldened by the fact that no-will will dare to judge it.

YANBU but you'll be minced up on here for this, projection

I mean more in the wider discussion on this thread.

Do they understand boundaries? Sure, if the boundaries are set and enforced, like anything else. Never having a device doesn't teach boundaries for device use, because it doesn't exist. Same as with any other boundaries for children.

What you fail to acknowledge is this outdated yet incredibly persistant idea that children should be seen and not heard. The amount of stress that causes for mothers is unreal. Unless everyone is prepared to accept children behaving as normal children do (chatting, asking questions, crying, tantruming) then please just pipe down. And just because other generations dealt with it before screens doesnt make it ok.

I'm on my 3rd child. Big gap, other two are 14 and 11, youngest is 18 months. None of my kids have had screens. The older ones can hold conversations, theyve all been curious about the world and know how to behave in different settings. Yes it's hard work entertaining kids when you're out. But isn't most of parenting hard work.
Now not only will we have to entertain our daughter when we're out, talking, singing quietly, playing games, colouring in etc. But at some point will have to debate with her why she hasn't got a screen.
And no I don't get a break, none of our family are in a position to help. We both work, juggle step kids etc. So giving her a screen might actually be easier short term. But it isn't for us. Same as lots of short cuts other people use.

It depends, I guess. We didn't and don't use phones like that, but our kids like trains, they liked being a pushchair.

They loved books and games and puzzles really early and were curious and easy to entertain. I've done four hour train journeys with them when they were tiny with a few charity shop toys and a couple of kids' magazines and it's honestly been fun. So it does make me sad to see kids just staring at their phone and missing out on all that.

Otoh - they have very restricted diets. I'd always assumed I'd have kids who would eat like grown-ups, instead I have kids who struggle to order off the kids' menu. I'm sure there are people who look at what they eat and feel sorry for them.

It's complicated. Pretty much everyone tries their best.

I completely agree with you OP. I see it all the time. Kids in pushchairs staring at screens, kids in restaurants staring at screens, even kids in the swimming pool changing room staring at screens. These kids are totally disengaged from the real world and will never learn to be bored and to entertain themselves. It’s exceptionally lazy parenting.

I’ve read the usual comments on here about “not understanding what the parent is going through” but I don’t believe for a second that it’s being used as a last resort on a bad day for a minority of parents. I see them same kids in the same route to nursery staring at videos on a phone every morning. I see the same parents after swimming lessons every week thrusting a screen in their toddlers hand while they get dressed. It’s miserable. Why can’t they just talk to their kids? Why can’t they just leave them to enjoy the view or find their own entertainment? It’s thoroughly depressing.

I think this will always be incredibly divisive and really without knowing someone's story you can't really judge. Ultimately there could be 54826 reasons , some of which you may agree or disagree. None of which are really anything to do with you.

Personally I don't take tablets out or give DC my phone and never have but that's what works for me. I don't really feel the right to comment on someone else's choices because finally they aren't my children and I find it incredibly entitled that anyone thinks their opinion on someone else's parenting is remotely relevant outside of abuse (this is not abuse).

In the vein of entitled though the comment of depriving others of being "present" with them is beyond entitled. I can assure you whilst I do not use devices with DC in public I owe you or anyone else nothing in terms of being present in a public place.

Being appropriate with shop staff etc is a different thing. You as a random passerby or someone else on a train have less than zero right to be "present " with me. Or my DC.

I genuinely find it amazing the arrogance of people that there is anything owed to them as a random passerby or element of a crowd bar safety and lack of direct intrusion. I find it quite sinister that you expect other people to be present "with" you in a public place outside of family and friends.

Why on earth do you feel entitled to a strangers attention?

Crikey, why direct your argument to my hour or two of CBeebies in the morning then. It’s so bloody hard to have open discussions on here sometimes without posters twisting (or completely misunderstanding) what you’ve said. I wanted to hear peoples experience, not a textbook answer. Take your twister knickers and aim them at someone who actually does have a problem with screens!

Wow, calm down. No knickers twisted here (athough you might want to check your own!). I was using your comment to reference the wider debate. I'm not saying, or judging, anything about your TV usage. I was simply using your comment about TV to compare with the judgement on screens outside the home.
I have no issue with TV watching. yours or others.

Yes, we honestly have no issue with 6yo demanding the tablet. He knows it's my iPad for a start, so its not available for him to use whenever (he probably doesn't even know where it is, as I keep it in my home office as I use it for work sometimes). It would probably be different if he had his own tablet as he'd feel it was his and that he could therefore access and use it whenever he wanted - as a result, we've held off all offers from grandparents etc. to buy him a tablet for birthdays/xmas etc. At home he is totally able to occupy himself with all his toys, craft stuff or just running around the garden like a lunatic! He never asks to use it at home. He actually never asks or expects it in restaurants/long journey either (which is when I'd allow him to have it) so he's quite excited when I offer it to him pre-loaded with cbeebies apps to play.

He also hasn't discovered YouTube yet.... I know that seems to suck them in!

He can watch TV at home though. He will often watch a movie after lunch at the weekend for some quiet time whilst the baby is napping and I'm comfortable with this.

In the same why I find anything where people are shutting themselves off from other people in public and not being aware of others.

I was about to say YANBU to everything else but this is stupid. Why do you, a stranger, need my attention in public? Adults wearing headphones on public transport or hoping for a walk really is nobody's business, though you should have basic awareness.

I agree that kids don't need constant tv entertainment when outside, that's seeing your child up for screen obsession by giving them tech when they didn't need or ask for it (barring SEN).

Whether it's a regrettable social change depends on your perspective.

On a busy flight, it's definitely not a regrettable social change to have all the older toddlers/ young children plugged into screens, sitting still and quiet as opposed to throwing toys about, kicking seats, climbing about, constantly crackling snacks, loudly being read to or walked about the plane or constantly dropping crayons which you're then asked to retrieve. I breathed a sigh of relief on a 4 hour flight earlier this year when the small children within our vicinity (mine included) were plugged in and peace and calm reigned, with only the occasional moan or interruption.

I was in a large shopping centre on Tuesday,sat down for a rest and the guy beside me had his phone propped up in a holder with cartoons on for his child. When I say child the baby was no more than 4 months. I had to admit I did a double take. Absolutely no need for it,its lazy parenting.

My children are 10,12 and 14 and we never brought electronics out to entertain them.

@Goldbar ah yes, what a vision for the future! It’s like Wall-E 🙁

Yeah I don't think the train point was your best one there. A probably hot, maybe tired toddler quietly zonking in front of a screen may well be the best option for all parties in that situation. It's quite conceivable that a toddler might not welcome or respond well to parental input in that scenario, especially not for a whole hour, and we all know parents often feel pressure and judgement to keep kids quiet in those situations.

I don't remember ever doing a train journey that long when mine were that age, but there's no chance chatting and colouring would've kept them happy for that long (one is ND tbf). Their desired option would have been running and climbing all over the place, which of course wouldn't have been acceptable or safe, so I'd have done whatever I had to do.

I don't think it's rude but it isn't good for the child imo

On the subject of societal change, I wonder how much difference it makes that hitting DC is no longer acceptable. I remember quite often in the 80s seeing kids who were acting up and in retrospect probably overtired and overwhelmed getting a slap, crying, falling asleep and then waking up fine. It wasn't until I had my own DC that I thought about this, and that the underlying issue would likely have been tiredness and needing a rest from the particular situation.

I don't agree with hitting children, and don't hit mine, but it used to be a common and accepted behaviour and I wonder how many of these DC being given screens to pacify them in public now would have been managed via being belted after a certain point a few decades back.

Fucking hell, advocating giving your child a good slap so they cry themselves to sleep as a better alternative to an episode of Andy's dionsaur adventures 😂 The screen hate is real!

This could have been my child. He likely has ASD and has sensory needs, the kids entertainment was a bit loud, he had ear defender's on and was watching the tablet so he could relax. It's his holiday too

You're getting upset over nothing. Op isn't going up to parents and telling them to stop doing it is she? And she probably knows some of these kids she sees, especially the nursery ones. They can't all have additional needs. Only some will.

Some will be because of additional needs. Some will be lazy parenting. People need to accept there are lazy parents, there always have been. Two of my cousin's had lazy parents, but back then it was VHS tapes they were given to watch rather than interacted with. Both struggled in school, very badly. Thankfully they have managed to make something of themselves, but it's got bugger all to do with their parents. And they are minorities too, not all will cope and go on to better things.

Be that as it may, it's much less troublesome for the surrounding adults than listening to children being distracted by a constant stream of snacks, loudly read to or continually dropping crayons or colouring pencils. Such a bad idea on a plane... they go everywhere. If you're going to bring them, at least bring one of those fold-out trays to contain them so you're not repeatedly asking the people around you to retrieve them!

I'm not saying I would judge a parent who refused to plug their child into a screen and therefore regaled the flight with The Gruffalo read three times in a row with exaggerated voices. I would ever smile while retrieving the crayons and wince sympathetically when the 18-month old starts eating them or throwing them into the aisle. But I have a soft spot in my heart for 'lazy' parents who decide that confined public spaces aren't the place to impose screen time limits (so long as they use earphones, otherwise they're the devil incarnate 😡!).

Um, no. Literally not in the slightest. Read the post again...

I totally agree with you OP.

Yabu. I would have thought the same before being the parent of an autistic child. You have no idea what is going on in those families.

And what rose tinted world are you living in where people respond favourably to normal toddler behaviour? Because my experience is that our society is deeply unwelcoming to children, normal toddler behaviour like a tantrum is treated with judgemental looks and comments.

Someone actually told me I shouldn't have brought a toddler to the supermarket the other day. In the face of such rudeness it does not surprise me that other parents resort to tablets.