To ask if you a Conservative Party Member who you like to see in the final two and who would you vote for?

[BreadInCaptivity]

As the title says.

We will have a new PM and the decision on who it is will ultimately reside with CP members.

I would rather this wasn't a political thread in the sense of Conservative/Labour/LidDem/Green etc.

I'm simply very interested to understand the direction of travel here for party members and would ask that people posting respect that and don't pounce on party members who post.

For reference I'm not a party member, but my uncle is and in his constituency he's saying it's a run off between Sunak, Mordant and Badenoch in terms of local support.

Usually what it means is 'woke' versus 'anti-woke', though it can mean a number of things.

Some Tory politicians (not Sunak or Mordaunt or for that matter Johnson) are obsessed with the 'war on woke'. Kemi Badenoch seems to be the leading anti-woke 'warrior' among the front-runners. According to her Wikipedia entry, 'In a Black History Month debate in the House of Commons in October 2020, she reiterated the government's opposition to primary and secondary schools teaching white privilege and similar "elements of critical race theory" as uncontested facts.[44]
ConservativeHome readers voted Badenoch's speech on critical race theory 2020 'speech of the year', in which she said that any school that teaches "elements of political race theory as fact, or which promotes partisan political views such as defunding the police without offering a balanced treatment of opposing views, is breaking the law".[45]'

What is slightly worrying here is that she seems to be taking on American right-wing obsessions: this whole issue of 'critical race theory' is usually an American Republican preoccupation. In America, moreover, some BLM activists have reacted to racism and violence in policing by demanding 'defunding' of the police. This is not really an issue in the same way here, even among those who are highly critical of the Met and other police forces, and in any case is not something taught in schools.

In any case
fighting a 'war on woke' at the moment shows a somewhat strange set of priorities, when most people are probably more concerned about the cost of living and about the overstretched health and (even more) social care services.

What is slightly worrying here is that she seems to be taking on American right-wing obsessions: this whole issue of 'critical race theory' is usually an American Republican preoccupation

This. Her popularity with the Tory membership - and her rise to being on the PM ticket - is alarming.

Well the way that some remainers (mainly in Parliament, plus a few outside) wasted time fighting Brexit, rather than looking to come to a compromise is largely responsible for the hard Brexit we ended up with. Had they been willing to compromise, we may have ended up in EFTA instead.

Smoking was popular once. You don’t know cognitive dissonance is.

I’ve been quite interested in this contest thus far but the way some of them are now using their banner men to publicly brief against each other in the press is offputting and rather unseemly. Lord Frost in particular needs to put a sock in it.

If lockdown is a political dealbreaker for you then enjoy being permanently pissed off for the rest of your life because we can't go back in time and not have done it. All parties supported it, epidemiologists supported it, it was popular with voters... get over it.

Indeed. Lord Frost who literally nobody has ever cast a vote for busy trying to pervert democracy is indicative of how low our politics has sunk.

I don’t know enough re Badenoch yet I need to listen to her, info below is interesting I’ll look more into it.

I disagree re timing, women have been building on this for years, it’s now on the agenda due to hard work on women’s rights. It can’t just be dropped every time other issues are in play.

At some point you keep standing back and laws are changed around you to your detriment. I’m glad it’s on the agenda, I don’t expect everyone to care or even know about it but I’m reassured by other women who do.

According to the Telegraph

Lord Frost has been branded as an “unelected, failed minister” after he called for Kemi Badenoch to withdraw from the leadership race and back Liz Truss.

Simon Hoare, chairman of the Northern Ireland select committee and a close ally of Rishi Sunak, asked why the former chief Brexit negotiator thought he could tell elected MPs what to do.

“For some unknown reason David Frost perpetually thinks we give a flying xxxx what he thinks. We don't and we won't,” he tweeted.

I disagree re timing, women have been building on this for years, it’s now on the agenda due to hard work on women’s rights. It can’t just be dropped every time other issues are in play.

It's not being droppe, it's a major talking point and attack line against Mordaunt from rivals.

Trust me, they'd all much rather talk about that than cost of living.

it’s now on the agenda due to hard work on women’s rights.

It’s on the agenda because it’s politically expedient. The Tories don’t give a shit about women.

No it’s not being dropped. So people will just have to get through it.

Pp have said the timing is bad well tough really. It matters to some of us and if it doesn’t to you focus on what you’re interested in. Some people seem to seek it out even though they’re not interested.

PM supporter has already done it’s only the media making an issue trying to evade it. the debates will bring it up so she’ll have to answer.

good politicians who can’t answer are woeful - including on the left

@MarshaBradyo, the Tories will drop it like a hot brick as soon as the leadership election is over. It’s only value to them is for political point scoring.

We’ll see

I know what concerns me and who I don’t want to see leading and I’m glad it’s being discussed

If people are fed up hearing about it tune out when it’s on, read different press or SM there’s plenty there

And even at this stage it may not help them that much:

Here's new polling data of 500 Tory members looking at what issues they consider are most important + views on various topics....

What issues are you most passionate about? (Pick up to 4)

Cost of living 43%
Channel crossings/refugees 32%
Grow economy/unemp 32%
NHS 24%
Ukraine 19%

Trans issues came 26 and 27th on the list at 3% (they split participation in sport and rights of transgender people into two different categories).

Only thing lower was "what, if anything, should be done to improve racial equality in the UK".

twitter.com/Samfr/status/1546960872744124416

Most strongly 'anti-woke' people are not particularly pro-women's rights. You sound as if ALL that is needed for women's rights is to be against self-ID for transwomen. While one does not need to be RW or 'anti-woke' for that, the majority of RW anti-woke people, who are concerned about gender issues, want to go back to enforcing strict sex roles and gender segregation, and especially to restricting women's reproductive rights. Exhibit A: the current American Supreme Court.

I would also consider many economic and public services issues to be important to women's rights, as poverty affects women disproportionately. In particular, social care is very entangled with women's rights, as most carers are women.

I don't think Badenoch has expressed many views on women's issues: she seems more preoccupied with being to people from ethnic minorities what Norman Tebbit was to people from poor backgrounds (and at least Tebbit didn't go around quoting the more paranoid elements of RW American ideologies). But the religious-right Christian Concern website consider her as their preferred candidate (though they're not unreservedly in favour of any of them); and this does not inspire confidence.

‘Anti-woke’ is a phrase I dislike as much as ‘culture wars’ and seems to be used on SM and media more and more. I wouldn’t immediately align myself with ‘anti-woke’ nor use the term ‘culture wars’

I prefer explicit clear language and what it means in practise to determine whether I back it or not. You give the example of Supreme Court in US I have posted my thoughts on that elsewhere but it’s not something I support.

As I said I need to look more into Badenoch’s policies.

He's reportedly offere Badenoch a serious Cabinet post if she'll step aside for Truss.

oh God, please not Education Minister for her!! Worst of both worlds. Someone who doesn't know what a woman is for Pm, and someone with her hideous policies on everything else being in charge of vital services like Education.

Unsurprising. And it's the Conservative party members who choose between the final two. They'll be much more concerned about "those people coming over in dinghies" than women / trans issues.

So maybe not doing it for all those votes after all - it won’t swing people much.

There’s a fair few of us who do care so I’m glad we count enough to get it on the agenda. Finally.

They will ask at the debate everyone who doesn’t care can make a cup of tea or whatever

I would imagine she's not short of offers from any of the candidates, to be honest. Badenoch is the key that unlocks this contest in my opinion. Whoever gets her, gets it. And she'll end up in cabinet regardless of who wins.

I like Penny but I don't trust her on Women's rights. It's not enough to stop self ID; we need to reverse the gains made against single sex spaces. No men in Women's prisons, sports, rape crisis centres, hospital wards, toilets. DP will vote for her.

Kemi is a bit green but she gets my vote.

It may be your opinion but I think it's spot on.

Braverman was backed by the hard right "Spartans" who are trying to shift her 27 supporters to Liz Truss. There is no chance they will go to Sunak or Mordaunt. This will leave Sunak in pole position and Truss / Mordaunt competing for second place.

Tugendhat is the the last moderate / remainer standing and when he is knocked out then his 30-odd supporters will naturally move to Rishi Sunak, at least that's my guess. So Sunak will be confirmed in first place in the ballot of MPs and it will be between Truss and Mordaunt for second.

That makes Badenoch the kingmaker.