to think there is no solution to bullying

[cofingalthetime]

So my ds has been in a team for just over 2 years. He is not the best on the team, or the worst - if that matters. The coach is very competitive. DS has been miserable going to matches and training for about 6 months. He says (and I've seen and heard it) the boys give out to him all the time, if he makes a mistake they say under their breath FFS, or tell him he's standing in the wrong place, or shout at him. The coach's son was the worst culprit. So gradually DS attendance has fallen off. I offered to speak to the coach but DS said it wouldn't help, would probably make things worse - does speaking to the coach ever work?

Anyway last night was another training session, and ds didnt want to go, so I just said we should just tell them he is leaving - it was hard, cos he loves football, and I have made friends (as I thought) with some of the parents. Anyway, in the end, he made the decision to leave (with my help). So I texted the coach and said I would ring him tmw - it was getting late at this stage so I didn't want to disturb him by ringing.

Almost immediately he texts the group chat saying DS has decided to leave and best wishes to him. He also texts me that he had had a feeling for a while that DS was becoming disinterested.

I slept on it, but it really annoyed me, that yet again, this kind of thing was being swept under the carpet, and the coach was even going so far as to say ds wasnt committed enough - that was what he was hinting at.

So wrote a long text to the coach explaining how unhappy ds had been, that I had witnessed the behaviour of the boys, that I had suggested saying something to him, but ds said no way, that I felt it may not have made any difference in any case, as once it's the norm to pick on someone, it's very difficult to change that narrative. I mean 13 year old boys don't take much heed of what the adults say do they. I've seen it before - when a teacher has tried to 'help' and ended up making things worse.

Well, the coach is very angry - he wrote me a long email about how the club does not condone bullying and that he had seen or heard nothing, and that I was to describe specific incidents to him (which of course I can't, as it's that insidious, snide type of bullying that is very hard to pin down). In a word, he is clueless how to deal with it. He said that the boys were very competitive, as they should be, and challenged each other. I wanted to respond that ds is well able for banter, and is very competitive and is popular at school, with lots of friends. But I didn't. I also posted a similar message in the group chat. (I left the group then).

Only 1 mother has texted me to say how sorry she is - ironically her son is one who was nice to ds on a few occasions.

I'm just disappointed, not surprised, but I was bullied in school over 30 years ago, and honestly the attitudes and ways of dealing with it don't appear to have changed one bit. Don't we need to look at this from a different angle. THe coach was literally blaming ds for not coming forward He said "DS has never mentioned anything to me or the other coachers". Well OF COURSE he hasnt, are you an idiot.

Just wondered about others experiences - is there an answer to bullying, or are we destined to leave it up to the victim to leave, move on, heal themselves, always wondering if there is something "wrong" with them, that they got picked on.

I'm left with a nearly 14 year old who is very down on himself, thinks he is crap at football, and what team would even want him now. I'm so sad - he bloody loves football. Not fair.

I'm sorry to hear this @Morph22010 but sadly not surprised.

Yes the couple of times DS has gotten in trouble in school - I'm thinking once, maybe twice - it's because others have been annoying him and then he lashes out, and of course he's the one that gets noticed, and caught out by the teacher. Its so insidious and snide and difficult to call out.

Yes he likes tennis - I'm just sad about the football as for a few years we lived on an estate, and he was out for hours and hours playing with his friends, and was just so so happy. Football was his happy place. Just hoping and praying that he will find another team.

Any sports club should have a specific policy that outlines how incidents and reports of bullying are dealt with.

If he decides to join another club ask for their policy, if their reaction to your request isn’t positive thats a sure sign bullying won’t be dealt with properly.

You could reply to the coach that your ds was constantly shouted at and sworn at for things that weren't commented on if done by another child and being the scapegoat of the group over a long period wore him down. You could finish by saying you understand it's hard to admit, especially as it involved his son, but that you'd have no motivation to make it all up and you hope he'll keep an eye out for them finding a replacement scapegoat now they can't scapegoat your ds

Yes - no harm in doing this. Less of a focus on your son (which they won’t care about now that he’s leaving) and more on the toxic culture of the group as a whole and how it may affect other children. Can you copy it in to someone higher up the food chain than the coach?

I would leave the coach/club well alone and consider it history. There is no solution at all to bullying.

My ds was bullied a few years back and it was awful. It was only investigated by the school after we logged incidents for a year. Date, time, exactly what was said/done. Some of them looked so petty, but in the context of what was going on, they did build evidence. The school spoke to the parents of the bully and they said, oh it’s all fiction so there’s nothing to be done. School said to us - can’t do anything. So we logged more incidents and this time we included the names of children who had witnessed what happened. Bully was brazen so there were at least 10 different kids as witnesses spread over all the incidents. We asked the school to verify the incidents with the witnesses. Finally, and only then, did the school fully accept and admit what had gone on. And they apologised. But fuck all happened to the bully. The bully is now separated from my ds and my ds is fine. The bully now has chosen some different victims. So the cycle repeats

If you want your kids to be punch bags then you do you. Just expect them to be pissed off about it when they get older and learn the ways of the world.

I’ve commented on this on another post and the amount of people who say ‘it’s not bullying’ well I’m sorry if one child, or a group of kids pick on one child to make them feel bad, upset, singled out etc then that is bullying. Just because child a wouldn’t feel upset by it doesn’t mean it’s not bullying!! No one should be made to feel less than or anything else negative by someone else. It should be managed far better and it isn’t now nor was it when I was bullied as a kid till teens leaving school.

That’s why kids don’t speak up, because teachers say oh it’s nothing, or that wouldn’t upset me or you’re being too sensitive etc I heard it all! I got into trouble for retaliating - verbally but by then I was so worn down and fed up with it I didn’t care anymore. I’d then get bullied more it’s a vicious cycle. Your sons coach sounds like a tool op, he’s handled that so badly. If someone said that to me I would be sorting it out and so apologetic that they felt they couldn’t speak up to me. Maybe he’ll keep a closer eye on the team as they’ll find someone else to pick on now your son isn’t there which is sad. I just hate bullying, it made my life an absolute misery at school and my confidence and self esteem were non existent by the time I left. I hate to think of kids going through that now, and that schools, clubs still don’t deal with it properly or see it! It was quite obvious what was happening to me, the teachers all knew my mum was on to the school regularly nothing was done!.

I would reply to the coach within the group chat that his reply belies his poor and aggressive attitude, that this shows how bullying is within the team as the tone comes from the top, and suggest that he looks at himself first and that it is no surprise that his son was one of the ring leaders. Fuck it, say it like it is as you have left now anyway.

I fully agree with all that. Even low level "bullying" which is often wrongly seen as harmless, can have a catastrophic effect when it's relentless, daily, done by multiple people, etc. Bullying absolutely ruined by teenage years. Even once I escaped the crap comp I had to suffer, the damage was done and the effects have had a negative impact on adult friendships, relationships, careers and sports/lifestyle. Even now, in my 50's I approach strangers with caution, expecting them to make fun of me and being surprised when they don't. I simply can't work in any kind of "team" which has negatively impacted my working life as I've had to choose jobs where I can work on my own. I choose solo activities, etc. But of course, to those who bully "it's just banter isn't it!"

You are being very unfair to post about this publicly in group chat if you haven't previously raised it. If you don't feel you can raise it with the coach them the club will have acwelfare officer for this purpose.
The coach probably had no clue yhat your son had any problem.when you go you are focused on your boy. The coach has a lot more to think about!
I think it us appalling you publicly implied criticism on the coach who is good enough to give up his time to facilitate the boys having this opportunity , without having previously given any indication anything is wrong.what do you for for the club? Shame on you

There is a middle ground you know. I’ll teach them skills so they will be always in a position to detach themselves from people like you.

I just want to say I don't think it's 'ironic' that the boy who was nice was the same one who's mum texted you. I have found that children who tend to bully tend to have parents who are either a) disinterested in them and too busy with their own lives, or b) too invested in them in terms of being spoilt and thinking the sun shines out of their little backsides... Neither of these parents would listen or hear you if you said their child was exhibiting any sort of bullying or nasty behaviour.

tbh I wouldn’t have replied to your text if you’d put it in a group chat and then left. It’s attention seeking and will always leave you hurt that people didn’t follow up with you, when following up means saving your number on my phone and then back on WhatsApp and all that.
And if we’d been friends up until then I’d be put off you’d done it like that.

I don't understand why you didn't bring the bullying issue to the attention of the coach and work with them to tackle it while it was happening. If it had been brought to their attention and they failed to deal with it or dealt with it badly, then that was the time to leave and write the email.

you need to
move on and also be an example to your son. He needs to find a hobby that he enjoys. Sometimes things just don’t work out and you cannot influence anyone else’s behaviour, only your own. You sound more disappointed than he does, maybe you also need to find “ your tribe”. Let it go .

You’re well out of it with this team. Walk away and find another team for DS with the right ethos for him.

im involved a bit in junior football and that sort of behaviour would be noticed and not tolerated in my club. All run by parent volunteers so I don’t know if there are policies or safeguarding leads as such, but it’s known for being friendly and inclusive.

The ‘competitive’ clubs, where the kids are having a go at the opposition, their own players, the referee, are also well known. Without exception, they have argumentative coaches who are never happy with the decisions and give their players a really hard time.

Plenty of the nice clubs around. You won’t change this one so cut your losses and give them no head space.

Really sorry your DS had to go through that though. Soul destroying x

I’m not the problem here. You teaching them to back down from confrontation Is.

Ioldawg I'm not sure exactly what you're expecting kids to do.
If the group were against him I doubt that telling them to fuck off in the first place would have improved the situation. Aren't they just likely to have laughed at him.
If a child is singled out at school how can they stand up to a group?
I do agree that building self confidence and helping them to see the people picking on them as being wrong rather than internalising the bullying helps but there are circumstances where getting into confrontation doesn't help at all.
What would you suggest a kid does if a large number of the peer group are picking on them?

Go for the biggest one and give them a bif, sometimes youngsters, especially boys, have to get a bit of civility with their fists.

That’s so difficult for your dd

Is there a way to address it?

Feels really hard to fix

Go for the biggest one and give them a bif, sometimes youngsters, especially boys, have to get a bit of civility with their fists

Arr, that do remind me it do of the time I threw our Billy into the pond because he was afeard of the water. He drowned but it was better than having a lily-livered lad about the farm.

And then there was the time one lad got a knife, then the other got a semiautomatic, then their mates got a hydrogen bomb, then everyone got long-range missiles…oh wait…

@serenghetti2011 I could have written this post. It really is so infuriating and sad that things have not moved on. There is a mountain of research on it, and still it's usually minimised, dismissed, and nothing done.

It's really triggering for me. I remember the sense of utter powerlessness.

I think you’re overstating the impact of a straightener between two kids but go off

It’s not two kids though, it was all of them.

Have one of your kids ever been bullied @fUNNYfACE36 ?

Have you ever reported bullying and seen the absolute shambles that can happen to make it even worse?

I was perfectly entitled to tell the group the real reason DS was leaving. After the coach put up something totally untrue, and smoothed everything out so everyone could say Byeee

And of course he knew - he was there and saw and heard what I saw. He either wilfully ignored it as "banter" and "competitive spirit" or he is deaf and blind.

Ah so I should be "grateful". And he's too busy as a coach? WTF. He's not the coach for manchester united lol. This is his job - to run a team, and I would think a major part is to ensure every boy is happy?