to think there is no solution to bullying

[cofingalthetime]

So my ds has been in a team for just over 2 years. He is not the best on the team, or the worst - if that matters. The coach is very competitive. DS has been miserable going to matches and training for about 6 months. He says (and I've seen and heard it) the boys give out to him all the time, if he makes a mistake they say under their breath FFS, or tell him he's standing in the wrong place, or shout at him. The coach's son was the worst culprit. So gradually DS attendance has fallen off. I offered to speak to the coach but DS said it wouldn't help, would probably make things worse - does speaking to the coach ever work?

Anyway last night was another training session, and ds didnt want to go, so I just said we should just tell them he is leaving - it was hard, cos he loves football, and I have made friends (as I thought) with some of the parents. Anyway, in the end, he made the decision to leave (with my help). So I texted the coach and said I would ring him tmw - it was getting late at this stage so I didn't want to disturb him by ringing.

Almost immediately he texts the group chat saying DS has decided to leave and best wishes to him. He also texts me that he had had a feeling for a while that DS was becoming disinterested.

I slept on it, but it really annoyed me, that yet again, this kind of thing was being swept under the carpet, and the coach was even going so far as to say ds wasnt committed enough - that was what he was hinting at.

So wrote a long text to the coach explaining how unhappy ds had been, that I had witnessed the behaviour of the boys, that I had suggested saying something to him, but ds said no way, that I felt it may not have made any difference in any case, as once it's the norm to pick on someone, it's very difficult to change that narrative. I mean 13 year old boys don't take much heed of what the adults say do they. I've seen it before - when a teacher has tried to 'help' and ended up making things worse.

Well, the coach is very angry - he wrote me a long email about how the club does not condone bullying and that he had seen or heard nothing, and that I was to describe specific incidents to him (which of course I can't, as it's that insidious, snide type of bullying that is very hard to pin down). In a word, he is clueless how to deal with it. He said that the boys were very competitive, as they should be, and challenged each other. I wanted to respond that ds is well able for banter, and is very competitive and is popular at school, with lots of friends. But I didn't. I also posted a similar message in the group chat. (I left the group then).

Only 1 mother has texted me to say how sorry she is - ironically her son is one who was nice to ds on a few occasions.

I'm just disappointed, not surprised, but I was bullied in school over 30 years ago, and honestly the attitudes and ways of dealing with it don't appear to have changed one bit. Don't we need to look at this from a different angle. THe coach was literally blaming ds for not coming forward He said "DS has never mentioned anything to me or the other coachers". Well OF COURSE he hasnt, are you an idiot.

Just wondered about others experiences - is there an answer to bullying, or are we destined to leave it up to the victim to leave, move on, heal themselves, always wondering if there is something "wrong" with them, that they got picked on.

I'm left with a nearly 14 year old who is very down on himself, thinks he is crap at football, and what team would even want him now. I'm so sad - he bloody loves football. Not fair.

I understand the feeling of disappointment for you personally too, as well as your concern for your son having been bullied. It sounds like as a single parent in a new town you felt you were connecting well with the other parents and had found a sense of belonging with this network. It must feel harsh to realise that the other parents' loyalty is with the group and maintaining the status quo. Hopefully as you move forwards you can find different connections with people who share more similar values to you.

Any after school clubs?

It's good that one mum has contacted you. I suppose as you only told them today you might hear from more of them

I'm so sorry for your son OP.

Can I ask though, you say he is down for banter etc though, is there a reason he didn't just respond with "shut up knobhead" or similar, "what's your problem?" or called the lads out every time they muttered or commented?

If he's not stood up for himself, it's just been left to fester and got worse by the sound of it.

It also sounds like he just wasn't the right fit for the team though, for whatever reason. It's a lads equivalent of a clique. Teenagers are brutal.

Oh that is so sad you your son and for you. And the coach sound like an arsehole.

Yes there is a solution to bullying. Finland has virtually stamped it out. They run programmes from early primary and it has been so successful that they no longer run them in high school because there is no need.

I do think though that in places like England and America which are very focused on money being king and kicking people when they’re down, that positive change os a long way off.

I mean when you have daily newspapers making very vindictive and personal attacks, it doesn’t bode well for the nation as a whole.

Fuck the coach, fuck the nasty little boys, keep being you and keep encouraging your son.

It sure is a shame though. I mean only about one millionth of kids will go on to a career in elite sports so all this angst over performance is laughable. And research tells us that most kids don’t want it, they want to play.

Our son left his football team last year aged 13 due to exactly the experiences within his team. It is bullying, despite what some previous posters have said, and it shouldn't be justified. It is insidious though and very difficult to call out and deal with, so the coaches and other parents would rather ignore it and the more you raise it, the more you are labelled as the the problem.

I think the older the football teams get, the more competitive it becomes, as those who only play for fun tend to drop out along the way. The coaches are usually parent volunteers and rarely equipped to deal with such behaviour and it is often complicated by their own child's involvement. Our coach always said he would deal with it if he saw it, but he was always rather conveniently looking the other way.

We had to encourage our son to leave in the end. He didn't really want to stop playing, but it was a battle to get him to go each week and we could see it was really affecting his self confidence. He is much happier since he left and has since taken up other friendlier sports.

This isn’t going to be a popular opinion but In my experience a lot of bullied kids have, usually middle class. parents who are afraid to nut up and teach their kids that it’s ok to stand up for themselves. In the case of OP’s son this could have been nipped in the bud if he told the kids giving it big ‘uns to fuck off.

While the middle classes think it’s socially desirable to be a door mat their kids will get bullied.

Apart from the cruelty, the really stupid thing is that a team that works as a team will be much better than that lot.

My dd was in a tiny alternative school run by parents and was terribly bullied by the other children. When we complained we were told by the adults that they were trying to understand her but it was the bullies they should have look at. We took her out and she is thriving at her new school while I'm sure her bullies have found a new target.

My grandson plays for a team and we attend some of the matches. The coaches are parents and the referees are as well.
One team had this awful guy who shouted at the boys and marched about like a lunatic. When our team missed a goal or was fouled he shouted and cheered and clapped. At first we were all laughing at him but quickly realised he was deadly serious and disruptive. He was pulled for his behaviour by the coaches and some of the parents, and he argued and threatened people all in front of young boys who were disturbed and upset.
It got out of hand. The match stopped and he continued to argue with several of the coaches and the ref. One dad walked over to him and poured a bottle of water over his head, told him to calm down.
It worked, but the guy kicked off and made a complaint and now that dad is not allowed to attend the matches played against that particular team.
Point is - some people are just not qualified or capable of dealing with a situation like this, or with bullying that they know is going on, so they defend themselves by denying what they know is true and become aggressive as a defence mechanism
Allowing it to continue by doing nothing is unfair but most people do not want to get involved and even if they have seen your son being treated unfairly are unlikely to say anything which is awful.

I think you need to find another team and quickly before his confidence is destroyed. You also need to talk about what has happened and make it clear it is not his fault, and that the person who had the power to deal with it was unable to because he either chose to ignore or should not have been in charge of children

Yes it’s bullying. Behaviour intended to cause distress is exactly bullying.

Disappointing but unsurprising to see adults defending this appalling excuse for sportsmanship.

Okdoke

Hi OP. Sorry this has happened to your son. My experience of sports clubs is that this is pretty common. Basically they are often pretty cliquey and one person who is not "in" with the rest will be blamed for mistakes even if it's not their fault at all. To be honest, if it was a well run team with a different coach they wouldn't do this in the first place as it would be noticed, and it would be unacceptable. I have coached a lot myself and I would always see this sort of thing and stamp on it straight away. You have to call it out - "why are you not passing to them, they are free, they were the best option, you need to improve your decision making". Rules like literally no comments on the pitch/court of a negative nature, just praise and helpful instructions.

The coach sounds clueless and the boys horrid - I hope your son hasn't had his love of the sport ruined and is able to find a nicer team in the future.

@cofingalthetime I agree that bullying has no solution. I have experienced extreme bullying myself and it has no solution.

I think the only solution is get out as quick as you can because it destroys your self esteem otherwise and then you can focus on building resilience. Don’t let him feel like a victim, build him up as the type of person who saw something was wrong and took action. Use this as a means to teach your son to walk away from toxic people and toxic situation, there is a lot of this about in life.

I’m sorry this happened but it does, it is common and you have did a great proactive thing about it. Turn the narrative for you son to recognise that.

OP you have all my sympathies. Bullying is awful and our institutions do very little to stamp it out.

Those boys know what they are doing and are manipulative little shits. My DS was bullied and although I took him out as soon as I knew, it still affects him to this day.

I hope you find another club for your son because why the hell should he give up on something he loves and is good at when he is the victim?

It is horrible as a mum to watch this happen as you feel you can’t say anything as it would only make things worse.

My sympathies to you and your son.

Thanks for all the comments. I'm sorry for those of you who have been bullied in the past, it does stay with you. I think my ds will be ok - funnily enough he is stronger than me in a lot of ways. The only thing now is that he is saying he will only join a team where he knows some of the boys. He's training with a team at the moment, but the coach has said there are no places. At least he has training to go to but he will miss having matches. I kinda wish I let him leave earlier now, but I comfort myself that for the last couple of months if ds really didn't want to go I didn't make him. And we didn't go to the presentation thingy - I kinda wanted to go cos I don't have much of a social life and used to enjoy the chat with the other parents - but DS really didn't want to, so we didn't go in the end, so I'm glad I didn't make him. I'm still a bit hurt that none of the parents reached out - well 1 did, a mother I don't know!! - but none of the ones I chatted to week in week out haven't. Understandable I guess, but I thought they would at least be concerned for ds. Makes me think they are in denial. I'd love to hear what they all are saying - but I suppose I know already. Would love to know if anyone stands up for me, but I guess the narrative will be 'ah sure it's only banter' and stuff like that.

OP, it was horrible and your DS is better off away from that toxic group.

I sense you are upset for yourself as much as him as you are new and hoped to make some friends through the group. Your DS is too old now for you to make friends through him. Let him decide for himself what groups and friends to hang out with - not be doing it so that you can get to know the parents. Try to branch out yourself and make your own friends. Easier said than done I know!!!

Hmmm it is a tough one. Do you escalate it and it possibly get worse than it already has or do you just move on from it? You are right they will cover there backsides to protect themselves as parents, for the club and there reputation as coaches.
Is there any other sport you son is intrested in?
I think what would get me the most is what would that teach my son? People can treat you like that and they get away with it? I think if you did escalate it it would be on record and you fought back. I hate the thought of someone picking on someone and kids can be cruel. How is your son doing? Is he okay?

Fighting back is only useful if there is an outcome that improves your DS’ circumstances that is not the case here.

I’m reading a lot of victim mentality from OP. Until she nuts up and encourages her son to do the same this is going to keep on happening to him.

Yeah, everyone in this world should be aggressive as fuck. That’ll improve things for everyone!

It doesnt have to be aggressive though. Something formal. Letter of complaint something like that maybe

You are right there is no solution, you may as well put your energies into finding things your son likes and feels included in rather than trying to change the world. My son is autistic so we’ve always had this issue, clubs/groups say they are inclusive as they have to say this nowadays but the truth is they are not. The majority of people don’t give a shit about others as long as their child is ok. In my case my son would be wound up rather than stay quiet like your son and they’d he’d be told off as other kids knew what buttons to press then would say they’d done nothing and Ds reacted for no reason so the posts above saying your child needs to Stick up for himself are garbage. We’ve never tried mainstream football as I think that’s the worse of the worse as far as this type of behaviour is concerned.

I am sick of hearing the excuse that this low level insidious stuff isn't bullying. A girl at my DDs school took her life. The school know it is a problem. They have recently had their Ofsted downgraded from Outstanding to Requires Improvement. The response from the Headteacher was appalling to say the least. Lots of slippery shoulder activity and blaming everyone else rather than accept it and put in place a plan to rectify.

My DD frequently hears her name being spoken and whispered about and when she looks over the bullies say 'We love you Bookshop's DD'. When mentioned to the teacher all we get back is 'I only heard them say we love you'. Absolutely fuming that this crap isn't stamped out more assertively.

I would definitely take this further.

I don't think that's fair!!!! DS has no bother standing up for himself in school, and if you heard him on the PS4 you would have no doubt he is well able to stand up for himself! And yes when he would tell me about incidences I would say to him "did you tell them to get lost" - but I think he got ground down by it and felt he had no one on his side, so he was outnumbered.

Yeh I know - get my own friends!!!! I guess it was one of the first social things I did when we arrived in this city and then covid hit 2 months after, and football was still allowed outside, so it was an opportunity to make some friends, and they seemed like a nice bunch and met up outside the pitch on a few occasions, they seemed like they were friends - not just there cos their ds's were playing. So yeah, I took advantage of that. But yeh agreed, he is too old for me to make friends with his friends parents lol! That's one of the difficulties of moving around, you don't get to build up those long term friendships that can form when your kids are small.

agreed. 100%. Why are people so determined to say its not anything when it IS.

I'm so triggered reading that about your dd - very similar to the treatment I had at school.

And the coach saying to me to write down and report "significant incidences" just makes you feel like an idiot as of course you cant remember, it's just little things done over and over again. Maybe you can brush them off, but they add up and then you just get ground down.