to think there is no solution to bullying

[cofingalthetime]

So my ds has been in a team for just over 2 years. He is not the best on the team, or the worst - if that matters. The coach is very competitive. DS has been miserable going to matches and training for about 6 months. He says (and I've seen and heard it) the boys give out to him all the time, if he makes a mistake they say under their breath FFS, or tell him he's standing in the wrong place, or shout at him. The coach's son was the worst culprit. So gradually DS attendance has fallen off. I offered to speak to the coach but DS said it wouldn't help, would probably make things worse - does speaking to the coach ever work?

Anyway last night was another training session, and ds didnt want to go, so I just said we should just tell them he is leaving - it was hard, cos he loves football, and I have made friends (as I thought) with some of the parents. Anyway, in the end, he made the decision to leave (with my help). So I texted the coach and said I would ring him tmw - it was getting late at this stage so I didn't want to disturb him by ringing.

Almost immediately he texts the group chat saying DS has decided to leave and best wishes to him. He also texts me that he had had a feeling for a while that DS was becoming disinterested.

I slept on it, but it really annoyed me, that yet again, this kind of thing was being swept under the carpet, and the coach was even going so far as to say ds wasnt committed enough - that was what he was hinting at.

So wrote a long text to the coach explaining how unhappy ds had been, that I had witnessed the behaviour of the boys, that I had suggested saying something to him, but ds said no way, that I felt it may not have made any difference in any case, as once it's the norm to pick on someone, it's very difficult to change that narrative. I mean 13 year old boys don't take much heed of what the adults say do they. I've seen it before - when a teacher has tried to 'help' and ended up making things worse.

Well, the coach is very angry - he wrote me a long email about how the club does not condone bullying and that he had seen or heard nothing, and that I was to describe specific incidents to him (which of course I can't, as it's that insidious, snide type of bullying that is very hard to pin down). In a word, he is clueless how to deal with it. He said that the boys were very competitive, as they should be, and challenged each other. I wanted to respond that ds is well able for banter, and is very competitive and is popular at school, with lots of friends. But I didn't. I also posted a similar message in the group chat. (I left the group then).

Only 1 mother has texted me to say how sorry she is - ironically her son is one who was nice to ds on a few occasions.

I'm just disappointed, not surprised, but I was bullied in school over 30 years ago, and honestly the attitudes and ways of dealing with it don't appear to have changed one bit. Don't we need to look at this from a different angle. THe coach was literally blaming ds for not coming forward He said "DS has never mentioned anything to me or the other coachers". Well OF COURSE he hasnt, are you an idiot.

Just wondered about others experiences - is there an answer to bullying, or are we destined to leave it up to the victim to leave, move on, heal themselves, always wondering if there is something "wrong" with them, that they got picked on.

I'm left with a nearly 14 year old who is very down on himself, thinks he is crap at football, and what team would even want him now. I'm so sad - he bloody loves football. Not fair.

I agree with this. It really doesn’t sound like bullying.

People won't contact you. They don't want to get involved in the drama. They just want their sons to carry on playing football.

I'm surprised you thought everyone was going to message you and divide the team etc.

Just find another team. People come and go all the time and things don't always work out in clubs or sport.

Somehow, and I know it’s not easy, we have to teach our kids to point out shitty behaviour the first time it happens.
A kind of “what’s your problem”.
Even adults are pretty bad at this. Many of us never really learn how to do it, particularly women.
We have to let our kids be aggressive to bullies and not constantly expect them to turn the other cheek.
My DD told me a boy hit her, I said what are you waiting for go and hit him back so she did.

I took my son out of scouts . He said he wasn’t happy but I thought he just needed to give it longer. He’d come from a different cub pack from most of them. Then I dropped him off once a bit early and the boys were there before the leader opened up the hut. I saw them ignore DS, literally turn their backs on him and leave him out of the circle. I told Ds to get back in the car and waited for the leader. I told him that DS hadn’t been happy and exactly what I’d just seen. He seemed clueless, to be honest, but not defensive. He just didn’t know what to say.

DS joined boys brigade with some friends and loved it. I felt guilty for having persuaded to carry on and thinking he was exaggerating.

So yes, there can be a definite ‘leaving out‘ going on which is nasty.

I would contact him, if I were you, and insist that the behaviour has been very unpleasant. I would be clear about what you have seen and heard. I would also note that his own son is the worst offender. But I like to have the last word and he probably won’t address your points meaningfully, so it would be understandable if you don’t want to reply.

What is more important now is to help your son rebuild his confidence. Mine recovered very quickly by being in the other group and loving it. I hope your son can find a new club quickly. Is there anyone you can ask about other clubs?

yeh I'm not really even posting about what to do next - I know what to do, I'm moving on, havent mentioned it to ds or anyone else. Was just musing today that bullying or whatever you want to call it still has no solution. I think the idea of calling something out as soon as it happens is useful. I did say that to ds at the time, when it started - like I said to him to just answer back, and if they swear , to swear back, but it takes a lot to get him riled up, and he let it wash over him.

Yeh @Maray1967 I think that's part of the problem - a lot of adults, coaches teachers, just dont know how to deal with it when it happens in plain sight. And tend to ignore it thinking it will get better - but I've learnt over and over again that it just doesnt. I even feel bad now for making DS stay longer. I wish I'd taken him out months ago.

Yeh I am disappointed taht the other mothers and dads havent messaged me. If it was their kid I would offer an apology. I know what will happen, just swept under the carpet, never to be mentioned again. Just feels weird that I thought they were my friends - we went out socially a few times, they were a nice bunch I thought - we had prosecco at the match on easter sunday, and stuff like that. I thought they liked me, and would have cared more.

I think if it was me I would escalate this; 1) I would feel like they've got away with it. 2) It could happen to another child. 3) It's bullying.
But most importantly the mother bear would come out in me and I would want to protect my son and I know for me personally if I left it it would feel unjust.

I've seen bullying dealt with v successful L where there is a will and zero tolerance.

Adults watching out for it, and talking to the Billie's.

Oh and a strong adult creating an environment where people feel safe to report bullying to the strong adult.

Parents called etc.

Yeh I know what you're saying. I feel like I've drawn the coach's and parents attention to it - the response has been miserable - so I don't think for me there is any advantage to escalating it, other than to have an even worse reputation. I am tempted though. I won't have a leg to stand on though - the coach will come right back at me and say ds nor me ever mentioned anything to him, and how could he deal with it if he didn't know. He will say they are a competitive team, and take their football seriously - implying that DS is too soft, too sensitive. I don't know if I can bear it - the victim blaming which will go on etc etc. I think it's a shame there isn't a training course, or webinar which could address all these things which is compulsory for coaches. But I honestly think our way of dealing with bullying and all these 'protocols' that clubs have are not worth the paper they're written on. I'm not saying their intentions are not in the right place - but they are actually useless on a practical level.

I mean if it was your team - what would you have done differently. For one, I think I would have noticed, and been more aware. Either the coach was oblivious - I find that hard to believe though as there are 3 of them, 2 coaches who are parents, and 1 dad who helps out - so I can't imagine they didnt see/hear what was going on. Which means they were complicit - again either they didn't care, and chose to ignore it, they wanted DS out of the team anyway, and hoped it would 'persuade' him to go, or they were clueless at how to tackle it, so ignored it anyway. I'd love to have a proper discussion with the parents and coaches and team about it all - would there have been a way to get ds included, and feel valued in the team? Would it have even been possible, if the will was there?

Football (unfortunately) is full of overly competitive parents, who encourage their children to make comments (even without meaning to). I have seen it myself when my son played football with the "best" local club. The son of the manager had his group of friends, and if they did not like you then you were ignored. Even standing by the goal, onside, calling for the ball, they would rather pass back to the goalkeeper than give the ball to him. He scored pretty much whenever he got the ball, but that was not following the script of him being a shit player. He left, went to a different team, and his new team (with him playing) thrashed his old team when they played in a tournament. But it did not make him feel any better. He clearly was not shit as he was awarded his colours at school for football and was always picked for the team (and it was pretty competitive).

Interestingly, he then played hockey (started in secondary school) and all the football tactics he had learned, transferred well onto the hockey pitch and he was playing county level within two seasons.

He now has gone back to tennis, and really enjoys the camaraderie and the wide range of ages and abilities.

He still misses football - and I am sad that he did not get the enjoyment he deserved.

With regard to your son, if he wants to keep playing, find a team outside the area if there is no other team within the area, and try to make sure it is not full of kids from the same school as the kids that are causing problems for him.

Thats interesting, and good to hear @PaperTyger

Can I ask you do the team all shake hands at the end of the game. This is a good idea. I play sport, we may have a few cross words , frustrations on the pitch but at the end of the game we all shake hands and say well done. It creates a nice atmosphere.

that's sweet. no they never did that.

Ugh this made me feel really uncomfortable op, your poor son.
I always say to my dd you don't have to do the whole be kind thing - you don't have to be best friends with everyone and it is ok to not like everyone you meet but you must never be unkind. Obviously their sons have never been on the receiving end of this vile behaviour.
He will find his tribe either on or off the pitch xx

Please, please escalate it. There will be another scapegoat now. A team with that dynamic need to find someone to play that role. Your son isn't there any longer so there's a vacancy.

I bet all the other kids who aren't the star players are shitting themselves. And so are their parents.

I can understand your reluctance to pursue it - it's not going to benefit your DS and why should you protect these other kids (who probably also joined in).

But unless parents raise the issue, no one is going to realise there's an issue.

The parents won't message you as they'll be scared it will come back on them and their son will be dropped from matches.

My son played in 2 teams. The first one the coaches son was star player and full of himself. There were so many issues the parents were unhappy with and they'd all go on about how pissed off they were. I spoke up and not one of them had my back, not one. We left and moved on but that experience really opened my eyes.

I'm sorry your son had this experience and you too. It's awful to witness your child being ignored, bullied and blamed.

Sorry your son felt he had to leave the team . If he wants to still be involved in football has he coincided becoming a referee? He would be part of the sport , become a good roll model for the players and help eliminate bullying on the pitch.

I don't think I can put myself through any more. Plus the coach will come right back at me, they will cover their arses, and nothing will happen. I think change can only happen when the will is there and it just doesnt seem to be. I get your point though. Maybe if you all helped me draft something....?? I get too emotional and end up shooting myself in the foot. And losing the argument!!!!

Sorry to hear your updates.

The whole culture of the team sounds unpleasant. The funny thing is, I can see why some parents would not see the bullying - as it is more something that is ingrained in the culture itself rather than anything about your DS or a particularly unpleasant boy. They as a group probably genuinely would not understand that they are doing anything wrong. It’s just “ the way we do things here”. Toughen up or move on. And yes, they’ll scapegoat someone else when your DS leaves.

You’re right, this comes from the top down aka the coach in this case. And he probably attracts a particular type of parent/son to the team. Others, including you and your DS will move on. These sorts of coaches are a menace as they actively encourage this sort of culture - but many boys/men love it and don’t see anything wrong with it at all. It’s calling being a man, innit? (Or, like, being a man, yah?)

yeah this is the nub of it I think. Which is why I think ds instincts were right - no point in saying or doing anything.

I'm trying not to think about all the conversations that will be had - or whispered at the side of the pitch at the next match, about how DS just wasnt up to it, and "sure the boys are competitive" and "ah she was just being dramatic, we have a great team here, sure the boys love it don't they". Am wondering even now were they talking behind my back all along as some of them have been together since their kids were small, so obviously very strong bonds. You'd think with them all coming from stable happy families, they wouldnt mind welcoming a new kid, just emigrated from a different country, single parent (me). Though now that I think of it, a few weeks ago I got a puncture on the way up to the training. I texted the group and not one parent replied, or offered to come down and help me. They were all up at the club. I had to wait 2 hours for the AA to come and obviously ds missed training ( he was relieved now that I think about it!). But yeh, just another example of me not being in the "in-crowd". All the kids had 2 parents in a stable relationship except me. Couldnt help noticing that.

I do worry about the kind of sons we are raising.

I think a lot of schools are better at dealing with bullying than they used to be. Not all of them of course. We did have a teacher who was new to the profession who brushed it off like your coach. The experienced teachers have tended to be better at dealing with it at my children's schools. I suppose football coaches wouldn't have the same sort of training as experienced teachers. It sounds like your son gets on ok at school where they are more experienced at dealing with this sort of thing. At least it's given the coach, parents and kids food for thought even if they won't admit to it. The coach and parents will probably be more vigilant in future if the boys find a replacement scapegoat

I'm happy to hear that @VincaBlue are you talking about secondary or primary?

DS hasnt experienced any bullying in school thank god, but I notice they are ultra quick to respond if you do report anything - once a boy started picking on him, and kept tripping him up, and I emailed the form teacher as he hurt himself quite badly the last time. DS told me the boy was moved to a different class immediately. And ds had to give a "report" to a 'special teacher' who came round to his class and pulled him out for a few mins. And the teacher didnt try and argue with him, just wrote down exactly what ds said and didnt make any comment or judgement on the situation. Just said 'thank you for explaining what happened'. So yeah, maybe responding asap is part of the solution.

Both really. Dd1 who was treated unkindly at primary is nearly 18 now. Her secondary school (a comp) is probably slightly rougher than her primary was, but I've been really impressed at the non bullying culture that's been encouraged at the school and others have said the same. Teachers didn't really consider it their problem when I was at school.

PS. Glad your son is OK at school. Are there any other footie opportunities he could get involved in or is it just the one? It's a shame they weren't more welcoming to a newcomer

Are there any football summer camps or would it be the same bunch?