MIL/ PIL and grandkids - how much involvement/ interest is appropriate without overstepping?

[ThisMuch]

Hi all, just looking forward to your take on this matter. In your experience, what is too much? What kind of behaviour from MIL/FIL justifies DIL's/ DS's annoyance or causes them to withdraw (particularly DIL)? How to offer support without appearing overbearing? This could be aplicable for the mother's parents as well in some cases, of course.

Context: GP want to spend as much time with GC and have as much involvement in DS's life as possible. This can be too much for a couple that wants independence and has different priorities. Sticky subjects are:

• Tending to children's needs during family gatherings (e.g. preparing their meal and making sure they are fed, putting them to sleep, putting sunscreen on them, changing baby's nappies). Is it OK for GP to take on some of these tasks or can that be perceived as interferring?

• Holding babies and physical affection with children. How much is too much?

• Calling to "request" family time - suggesting they visit for holidays, weekends. Organising meetings so that they also visit extended family. Visiting to take children to the park/ cinema

• Calling/ texting to check how doctor appointments/school functions/other events went

Thanks!

I see my GC about twice a week - I wait until I'm invited. I never offer advice or makes comments unless asked. I never touch GC until they initiate it. I have fed them - with supervision - but I have never changed a nappy or dressed them etc. i have never been asked to babysit or provide childcare - this is not my responsibility. I have 4 DC and my child rearing days are very over. I'm very happy with our relationships and I wouldn't change it.

It’s difficult I suppose when the couple have led an independent life and then the grandparents are suddenly all over you, but also I understand the want to be involved and that has to be facilitated!

I think for things like sorting food/nappies/au cream take the parents lead, you can always offer to help (I know I as the DIL would be very grateful) but don’t just assume and start doing it yourself.

holding babies is also fine but you remember what it is like when they are small or newborn and you as a mother don’t want to be away from them for to long so be mindful if you see the mum getting twitchy or the baby is unsettled then offer them back, she might actually say no it’s ok im happy for you to settle them etc. I used to hate MIL slobbering all over them, and HATED when she would take baby out of my arms without even asking just pick them up and walk away and hide away with them.

as far as family time goes I think it’s absolutely reasonable to try organise trips etc to see family, I can’t see how that would be deemed bad unless you’re wanting to do it every single weekend!

and calling to see how doctors/school functions go I think is lovely. I would like my PIL to take an interest!

Are you the GP? 😬

All the things you've listed can be either okay, or over bearing depending on the individual relationships between the PIL and parents.

Spending "as much involvement in DSs life as possible" and "as much involvement with GC as possible" already sounds overbearing tbh.

"A couple that want independence" - they will be independent, they're their own family unit, an independent family. I'd assume most couples fall into this category!

• tending to a child's needs during gatherings - follow the parents lead. Have they asked for help? Do they need a hand? Or are they perfectly capable of doing normal parental tasks for their own child without help. I'm sure parents are able to make sure they're fed / change nappies / put to sleep. Wait to be asked.

• holding babies - never take a baby from a mother / father without being offered. Always hand baby back straight away when asked. Don't take baby out of sight of parents / tell parents they're doing it wrong etc

• physical affection - follow parents lead.

• calling to "request" family time - sounds bloody weird put like that. Suggesting they visit / organising family gatherings etc is all sounding very involved and enmeshed, they'll suggest to visit if they want to surely - feel free to invite them to places, be prepared they'll say no if they don't want to. Never guilt trip / pressure.

• calling to check - let them update you. If it's important they will / ask occasionally but don't be overbearing and checking in all the time.

It's a balance, a DS + partner and baby are their own family. If they're a standard family, their time at weekends / evenings is precious and time to be spent as a family unit. Time with extended family like grandparents is important to, but has to be fitted in with general life and not all the time.

I think so much boils down to the relationship pre DC. You very rarely see posters on MN stating they were once best friends with their MIL but it all fell apart with the arrival of DC. Inevitably the story is always ‘we’ve always had a tricky relationship…’ or something similar.

To answer your bullet points, I wouldn’t mind my MIL doing any of those things. But we get on extremely well and she provides a lot of childcare for us. I’m sure not everyone would feel the same.

1. Ask if you can help when parents start to do something.
2. Very personal. If they cry offer them back.
3. Extended family organisation seems to much. You can say we are doing this event and you are invited if you would like to come.
4. Fine if they have already told you about them. Don’t forget to wish the adults luck/enjoyment of their own adult events too.

I think it’s a case of being led by them (the parents) and if in doubt ask. My parents and MIL are great, they’ve always been so respectful of me as a mother, they offer advice if I ask but they’ve always made me feel like I can be a parent without them taking over.

I'm the dil in your scenario. I have a 1 year old and we see in laws much more than my family due to distance. I would have absolutely no problem with u suncreaming, feeding, changing, hugging etc. As a gp u raised children just fine I would only step in if ds was upset or I knew he was particularly wanting me. With Suncream and feeding I would just keep an eye to ensure good coverage (ds is a very pale red head) and incase of choking.

With visits we tyr to draw the line at every other week as we like to have our own family time in between and I the week ds in in bed too early for evenings to count.

With checking in otherwise no issue with asking how appointments or events etc have gone and I often send updates and pics etc. It's when the check ins are getting like every other day for no particular reason it winds me up and I leave dh to reply which he usually forgets to do.

On requesting family time asking about spending holidays etc together no issue at all, someone has to extend a invite or no-one would see eachother. I do think that taking the kinds out alone should wait to be asked though so parents can wait till they are ready to leave them/have a break rather than feeling pressured. I've literally just posted about this to ask if if I'm unreasonable though!

Long reply but hopefully it's helpful!

This depends so much on the relationship between child, parent and DIL/SIL.

My set up would be too much for some but it’s perfect for us.

My PIL collect the kids twice a week from school and we tend to see them socially a couple of additional times a month.

At family gatherings I don’t care who feeds the kids, happy for them to be passed around, put to bed by granny etc.

PIL take oldest away for a week which they all love.

Frequent sleepovers and days out.

For me it’s perfect.

This! But would also add for number 3 that holiday time for working parents is tough and precious! Organising then telling them to see extended family is way too much!

We visit family a few times a year and it's bloody exhausting we don't feel ike we have had a holiday at all and my MIL always complains we have only seen her for 2 days out of the 7 we are there.....except we then have aunties, grannies, uncles and other side of family to visit too! We get no time to see our friends or do anything we actually want to and toddler gets bored/cranky after 2 hours

So many typos sorry! Rocking ds to sleep and typing don't mix well!

1. Tending to children's needs during family gatherings (e.g. preparing their meal and making sure they are fed, putting them to sleep, putting sunscreen on them, changing baby's nappies). Is it OK for GP to take on some of these tasks or can that be perceived as interferring? Of course that is interfering. Offer to help, don’t take something on without being asked. Starting to feed a child/apply sun cream etc implies you know better than the parent how to care for their child.
2. Holding babies and physical affection with children. How much is too much? Don’t smother children, a hug and then let them go and play.
3. Calling to "request" family time - suggesting they visit for holidays, weekends. Organising meetings so that they also visit extended family. Visiting to take children to the park/ cinema. Invite them to stay, suggest meeting for lunch. Don’t start making plans and expecting others to fall-in.
4. Calling/ texting to check how doctor appointments/school functions/other events went. Fine to text (your DS, not your DIL) for something major. A parents eve or a routine GP appointment is really no one’s business.

Depends on the age too! I wouldn’t have considered overnight before two because both mine were still bf. Now they’re nine and six we happily wave them off for three or four days with DMum in the summer and would do the same with DPIL if they offered. BUT weekends have become almost impossible due to DC’s clubs and friends.

It all depends on manner. My Mil has changed the odd nappy but in a way that doesn't feel like it's overstepping - just that the baby needed a change while she had him - my mum continuously wipes my kids noses in a way that just drips judgement.

Just ask them to ask you when they want help and have an open and transparent relationship in that regard. This also grows and evolves as children go through varying stages of clinginess. I like the GP's to just take him out or have him at theirs and assume they can figure it out (always provide an emergency bag) that way I get a break and he isn't looking for me all the time. Obvs we also have family get together but DS will play with his cousins etc but prefers me to do the feeding / care / cuddles. To this day I hate when they just grab him and run off when he starts getting f upset - as thought that's helping me. Not sure how to stop them doing this and it's annoying! Only happens at family gatherings. So basically, family gatherings it's me. GP's welcome to visit but most helpful if they just have him for an afternoon now and again so I don't also have to entertain them 😂

There are no hard and fast rules. I look after my various DGC up to four days a week and my DS/DIL and DD/DSIL will often invite us to join in with activities at the weekend. I know they'd be disappointed if I didn't enquire about doctors appointments, school trips etc. But, as a seasoned Mumsnetter, I've always taken my lead from them, particularly in the very early days.

I think your last bullet point would be too much for me (from a DIL perspective) because I’m not used to that level of contact/care from my own parents. And that’s key - to recognise that people give and receive love in different ways. What’s right for one relationship won’t be for another.

For everything, I think the second key for PIL is recognising that you’re not attached to your child and you’re not a family unit anymore. So it’s just courtesy and treating the family as their own separate people and asking ‘I’d like that, can I do that, is that okay with you?’ Etc. And not assuming anything. I think so many in law conflicts are because of enmeshment and the parents not realising that their children have become autonomous people.

Massively depends on relationships and how similarly you parent or have the same views. With my MIL I'm not comfortable with her doing much as she's a very different type of parent to me- smokes heavily around the kids (outside but at hers she just leans out the door), will give 2/3 year olds lollipops to run round with, very chilled about car seats, likes a drink etc etc. Shes nice enough and does love them but luckily for both of us she has zero interest in spending time with them, shes only interested in her daughters kids which suits me down to the ground.

My own mum is bloody amazing and we spend a lot of time together and I'd trust her with the world. She still doesn't have the little ones overnight because me or the kids don't want or need it. She has an incredible bond with all of them, and takes my eldest on holidays etc and will with the babies too eventually.

Tending to children's needs during family gatherings (e.g. preparing their meal and making sure they are fed, putting them to sleep, putting sunscreen on them, changing baby's nappies). Is it OK for GP to take on some of these tasks or can that be perceived as interferring?

I love passing this stuff on to willing GPs. They can change as many nappies as they want! Obvious caveat here is that I trust my DDs' grandparents so if they have helped with sun cream, or made a meal, I'm comfortable that what they've done will be fine.

Holding babies and physical affection with children. How much is too much?

I have a baby and a toddler and as long as they are happy, GPs can hold/cuddle as much as they like. They always pass them back when asked.

Calling to "request" family time - suggesting they visit for holidays, weekends. Organising meetings so that they also visit extended family. Visiting to take children to the park/ cinema

Depends how often. If they called every weekend then it's a bit much. But wanting to see grandchildren regularly, or take them to the playground sometimes is fine with me. As for extended family, with my PILs, their parents sometimes come to stay with them, so yes, visits with DDs' great grandparents are arranged through MIL/FIL and they will say to DH "grandma and grandad are coming to visit, they'd like to see DDs". I'm fine with this.

Calling/ texting to check how doctor appointments/school functions/other events went

If I've told them about the event, I'm happy for them to ask about it.

It depends on the relationship between the parties involved.

For me, points 1 and 3 would wind me up, less so if it were my own parents (unfair I know) but very much so with my MIL. But she can be overbearing.

Point 2, not bothered, the more love shown the better.

Point 4, calling me about these things would annoy me but my MIL doesn't call thank god as I don't like phone calls unless it's my parents or husband! Texting, ok but not about every little thing, all the time. I would find that interfering and overbearing.

It depends on the couple. This is where I think the in law issues arise, as the couples parents know their boundaries a lot better because they've known them all their life. Whereas in laws have to learn this a lot faster and in most instances it's a case of trial and error with the potential of the error being what makes them go NC.

For me I have no issue with my parents or ILs changing my children, holding them all day if they want to, making their food, applying sun cream, looking after them or any of the things you listed.

My best friend would stop speaking to her own mother for daring to change her kids nappies if she was around and able to do it.

It really depends how often you're doing these things. Each thing on your list sounds okay with caveats, i.e. you've asked first, you're not doing it every day, etc. But actually if you add them all up, it's quite a lot.

But most of the time it boils down to - speak to the parent first.

Additionally it used to annoy me when requests were framed as 'helping' me when actually it was for their benefit. If you want to cuddle my baby just say so, it's mostly fine! But don't do the whole "here, I'll hold her so you can have a rest!" thing. It comes to the same thing but it's just annoying. If you actually wanted to give me a rest then you'd do some washing up 🤣

It's their child. Their rules. Follow them or they'll not want to see you.

I assume you let your ILs run roughshod over your nuclear family, if not, what gives you the right to do it to your son's nuclear family?

If you were my DM, you'd be getting told.

Having my mum and pil involved in childcare was the worst thing I ever did. Wish I had paid for it now. It blurred the lines between grandparents and careers. They seemed to think Dts were children and of course as the childcare was free I couldn't complain. Our relationships have never really recovered.

Depends entirely on the relationship and personalities involved. But generally I’d say be led by the parents. Ask first, about pretty much everything. For example my lovely MIL will say ‘can I have a little cuddle with him?’ (meaning the baby) or ‘I think he’s pooed, is it ok if I change his nappy?’ or ‘does he need suncream today? Shall I do it?’ (meaning the toddler). Of course I’m not going to say no but being asked first just feels likes she’s not overstepping or judging.

My own parents on the hand manage to be both unhelpful and disinterested AND judgmental, which is quite an achievement.

In relation to affection, one family member of mine has a habit of grabbing my children and slobbering all over them which I just hate. So depending on the age I’d say wait for them to come to you.

I think calling to ‘request’ ‘family time’ and organising meetings with extended family is too much. Inviting them to things is fine, but do it by WhatsApp.

Someone has hit a nerve