MIL/ PIL and grandkids - how much involvement/ interest is appropriate without overstepping?

[ThisMuch]

Hi all, just looking forward to your take on this matter. In your experience, what is too much? What kind of behaviour from MIL/FIL justifies DIL's/ DS's annoyance or causes them to withdraw (particularly DIL)? How to offer support without appearing overbearing? This could be aplicable for the mother's parents as well in some cases, of course.

Context: GP want to spend as much time with GC and have as much involvement in DS's life as possible. This can be too much for a couple that wants independence and has different priorities. Sticky subjects are:

• Tending to children's needs during family gatherings (e.g. preparing their meal and making sure they are fed, putting them to sleep, putting sunscreen on them, changing baby's nappies). Is it OK for GP to take on some of these tasks or can that be perceived as interferring?

• Holding babies and physical affection with children. How much is too much?

• Calling to "request" family time - suggesting they visit for holidays, weekends. Organising meetings so that they also visit extended family. Visiting to take children to the park/ cinema

• Calling/ texting to check how doctor appointments/school functions/other events went

Thanks!

I think your last bullet point would be too much for me (from a DIL perspective) because I’m not used to that level of contact/care from my own parents.

This is so accurate. My DH really tried to facilitate the MIL-DIL bond as I dont speak to my mother. I just found it a bit much. It's much easier to chat in person, or arrange things through him, otherwise there's pressure to say 'yes'.

Even though objectively, the ILs can be lovely people, sometimes it's just too much.

I have looked after all 3 of my grandchildren since they were 9 months old 3 times a week from 7am to 6pm. Now they are bigger, I pick them up from school, feed them take them on days out. Their dad ( my son) call several times a week with the kids. The children want to come to my house and their parents want them to come. I let myself into their house and they let themselves into mine. We go out as a family, parents, kids and grand kids quite a lot. We are Family.

Tending to children's needs
this is really pissing me off with MIL rn. I know how to look after my kid and you're just getting in the way and making it more difficult. Do not do this unless specifically asked. Don't offer, don't do it, don't say "doesn't his nappy need changing?" It's condescending and making me very angry.

As much physical contact as the mum or child initiate. Don't try to get in while mum is. If I'm hugging or playing with my child I don't want some stray coming in to Tickle or kiss him.

I don't quite understand the 3rd one but there's a difference between "I want to see my grandchild" that my mum does, and "is there any day this week I could have DS for you? That my dad does.

This is annoying when you do it for anyone, by all means when you're next talking say "oh how did his jabs go?" But don't ring to check up on them.

Tending to children's needs during family gatherings (e.g. preparing their meal and making sure they are fed, putting them to sleep, putting sunscreen on them, changing baby's nappies). Is it OK for GP to take on some of these tasks or can that be perceived as interferring? Ask first if you can help, this is interfering otherwise and comes across as if the actual parent cannot be trusted to do this. My MIL does this and it really grinds my gears.
No2 - As long as the child is happy with it no such thing as too much physical affection I don't think.
Obviously hand them back if they're getting upset.
Calling to "request" family time - suggesting they visit for holidays, weekends. Organising meetings so that they also visit extended family. Visiting to take children to the park/ cinema this is nice as long as you're not expecting every single weekend/multiple times a week and there's no guilt trips if they can't make it.
Calling/ texting to check how doctor appointments/school functions/other events went
This might get a bit much if it's very frequent messages.

The context of these things are important. My parents are probably a what not to do example as I have very little contact from them, they do not ask about school, friends, interests at all they don't respond to messages updating them in vague terms about us. I'm actually OK with this disinterest. Inevitably a wider family event comes up and suddenly they want to be doing everything, acting the put upon martyr grandparents who have to fo it all because dim daughter can't cope with kids, how being a granfparent is great blah blah.

If you want to be grandparents who provide the minutae of care and support you need to develop a supportive relationship, thats a process not something that just happens.

Anything where you've got to artificially demand family time is just not a welcome situation.

You’re the dil, right? Calling to request family time would get my back up, families are busy enough without ‘requests’. Affection, no limits unless they’re taking the child off you without so much as a by your leave.

Agree with all of this.

1. You’re already inferring the parents cannot parent- step back.
2. You ask to hold the baby, never ever just assume you have the right to lift baby and pass her around.
3. Quick text asking how sports day/school play/ swimming gala went- fine. Medical appointments?! Absolutely none of a gp’s business! A message saying hope all went well opens dialogue if the parents want to talk about any medical apps/teacher interviews etc- but to ask, you’re overstepping boundaries. You’re the parent, it’s really not your business.

Are you the gp? I would be drawing boundaries, a lot of your post sounds overbearing to me.

Having a baby is a big enough life change without having to negotiate a relationship with needy inlaws who appear to have lost all interest for any sort of life away from their grandchildren. I can't remember a conversation with my ils which didn't involve my children. I find it very intense

I think I must live in a different world to some on here tbh.

I get on really well with PIL and have no issue with any of your bullet points.

I agree it's all about context.
And also, how the gp reacts if the parents say
" no thank you" to any of your bullet points. That is also key. Does the gp stand back and go about their business without a second thought? Or does the gp pout and look wounded or say things like " I was only......I just wanted to....I thought baby needed..." etc.
I'm biased obviously. I remember when dd was born my mil took it as a personal attack that I was breastfeeding. She used to grudgingly hand her back to me and say " I just can't give her what she wants" which tbh was creepy as fuck!

Basically is it about helping the parents and baby or fulfilling the grandparent's needs?

i think all of those things are normal for a grandparent to do. in terms of preparing meals, i would check with mum which type of things she does and doesn't allow. for me dd1.5 is not allowed juice or any drink that isn't water or milk and my mil follows this rule. she will also ask me if she is allowed to have certain snacks but i completely trust her to prepare meals as she values healthy eating as much as i do and i get on superbly with her.

In all these examples...generally speaking, if DD was happy, then I'd roll with it. It meant that if I did step in it was because DD wasn't happy and not about how I felt about it.

I will say that my PIL are nice people, no dodgy history and we get on fairly well. DH and I are quite capable of saying no if things don't suit us and the more we've done it, the easier (and more expected) it has become. They very much know that our children come first.

But babies aren't babies for long and the PIL doing things when they were younger didn't take away from how much our children loved us. It sometimes felt a bit like that, but we will always been mum and dad. Now they're older we send them off to the grandparents on holiday!!! Maybe the grandparents regret building relationships with them when they were younger they can't get rid of them now!!!

We don't live very close to either set of grandparents though, so that's a very natural way of limiting the frequency of contact. We would have different boundaries if we lived closer (and in fact moved away to improve our relationship with them).

I think all these things can be normal if there is a good relationship between parents and GPs, and the GPs respect the parents' role as parents, don't try to undermine / interfere, and put the child's needs and parents' wishes over their own wishes. The fact you call these "sticking points" suggests to me that these are areas the parents don't want GPs to step into and the GPs should respect that.

I have a great relationship with my in-laws and a poor relationship with my parents, now NC.

Tending to children's needs: PILs would have offered help and I would have accepted it. My mother would have either just done it and it would have come across as interfering, then acted all offended when asked to back off, and told me how I'm doing it all wrong and her way is better.

Holding babies: too much is when the child doesn't want it, or you don't let go when the parents want you to for whatever reason (eg it's time to feed but you want more cuddles). Follow the needs of the child, not the wants of the GP.

Calling to request family time: GPs can ask. parents can say no, GPs need to accept it and not badger or act offended. PILs would make suggestions and back off straight away if we said no. My mother would arrange things and tell us where and when for us to turn up, then be extremely upset when we say no.

Calling for doctor updates: really depends on the relationship. PILs would ask in order to support me, my mother would ask so that she could tell me how she disagrees.

The main thing for me is to offer but be respectful if the answer is no. And think about whether your reaction is appropriate. And don’t make it about you.

My MIL is a lovely but a total fusspot so if DD has a doctors appt I have to play down whatever the response is otherwise my husband or I get a big shocked look from her, descending in to a sad face and asking if this will be a lifelong condition when it’s just a cold.

Repeating what others have said - and stating the obvious - never take a baby off a mother without an invitation. My mil has been a nightmare for snatching babies - and that's how it felt, like snatching. It upset me so much and was one of a number of ways she alienated me in the baby years.

Just be grateful your kids have GP's Christ almighty !!!

People never do things that annoy you?

@bandek of course but having loving hands on GP's for my dd would be a privilege. She doesn't have any.

its absolutely fine to be irritated by people sometimes, you don’t always need to be unwaveringly grateful for them just being alive

Changing nappies, hugging, taking to park, calling to see how they are. Sounds terrible OP.

I have a great relationship with my in laws and see them once a week. They babysit for me for a couple of hours and we have lunch together afterwards. Here are my thoughts as a mum to a 20 month old:

I wouldn't like a GP 'showing off' how involved they to extended family at a family gathering by grabbing my DC and 'helping'. Some people do this and I can see how it would be irritating. However, if a GP offered some help I may or may not accept but would appreciate the offer either way.

If a baby is crying then you should not insist on comforting the baby. If a parent comes to you and asks for the baby then you must give the baby to the parent. Otherwise, if you are holding a content baby with permission then no amount of physical affection is a problem in my view. You just need to remember that you don't have a right to override a parent. If they need to take a GC for a feed etc, then don't fight it or act hard done by.

If you are calling to request family time every weekend then it is too much. I say this as someone that sees her in laws once a week, but it is during the week as I am a SAHM. If I were you, then I would always make it clear that it is never a problem for the parents to turn down an invite as you understand that their own family time on weekends is also precious. You are not entitled to any amount of family time. You should never organise for extended family to see the baby without first agreeing it with the parents. I would hate it if GPs visited my home uninvited.

I don't mind GPs asking how appointments and events have gone.

My in laws have been excellent as GPs and I'm very grateful to have them. I don't see my own parents much due to distance but they have also been great. I'm sure if you are respectful then you won't have any troubles either.

This is just my take, and FWIW applies to my parents as well as my in-laws.

Tending to children's needs during family gatherings (e.g. preparing their meal and making sure they are fed, putting them to sleep, putting sunscreen on them, changing baby's nappies). Is it OK for GP to take on some of these tasks or can that be perceived as interferring?

All fine, but check with me first. So saying, "Would you like me to sort out X's food for them?" is great. Just going ahead and doing it feels like you don't think I will!

Holding babies and physical affection with children. How much is too much?

Too much is when the child is fed up. So unlimited cuddles but if my baby is crying because they want milk or my toddler is squirming and saying, "Down," then you need to stop.

Calling to "request" family time - suggesting they visit for holidays, weekends. Organising meetings so that they also visit extended family. Visiting to take children to the park/ cinema.

Suggestions are great but you have to be able to take a refusal gracefully. Sometimes they might have other plans, or just be tired. I do find my MIL doesn't realise how tiring DH finds big family gatherings, for instance, and will really push them when he doesn't feel he can face one.

Calling/ texting to check how doctor appointments/school functions/other events went

I'd rather a text, and let me take my time answering. In particula if something hasn't gone well, I'd like some time to process that myself before I have to go round telling everyone. (Applies particularly to doctors' appointments.)

Hope that's helpful, though as I say it's just how I feel about things.

As far as I’m concerned when MIL is around there’s nothing I can do for DD that she can’t - Comfort her if she has an accident, get a drink or some food etc. I would be a bit 🤨 if she, for example, booked a day out with Dd without telling me first. She lives down the road and drops in when she likes, usually twice a week or so which I know would drive most posters on here nuts though 😅 I’m quite chilled I think.