To think this isn't normal?

[skinnylov]

I was at a caravan recently for a few nights with my family and I really could enjoy myself due to the constant thoughts and worries about germs.

The place seemed clean but whenever I was eating I kept picturing how many people had holidayed there previously and thinking about all their germs and dirt. I brought my own plates and cutlery as I have always been funny with that anyways and can't stand the thought of others (except people I know) eating off the same plates etc even if they've been washed. And even then how do I know if they have been washed properly? It makes me feel sick to my stomach just thinking about it.

In the shower I would jump in and quickly clean and back out it would make my fully body shiver and get goosebumps just thinking of other peoples hair, snot and skin down the drain that I physically couldn't be in the shower for more than a couple minutes.

My husband has claimed I ruined the full holiday due to this as I didn't really eat however, I didn't tell him the real reason, would just say I'm not very hungry etc but I think he just knows by now.

The weird thing is at home I am not a clean freak at all. I spend time with my kids over cleaning the house. I really am not a germaphobe it's just in situations where others have been before me I can't stomach.

For instance when we first moved into our house I couldn't eat very well for a few months as I kept thinking about the previous occupants germs and dirt. However, after a few months and once I'd settled in I got over that. However, I refused to have a bath until we got a brand new one as I just couldn't bring myself to bathe somewhere someone else I didn't know had. So I went two years in my house without having a bath and just showering until we got our own one. I bathed a few times but now I can't as I always just think about the dirt and grime that's in the drain and how close I am to them lying in the bath.

I know this isn't normal behaviour but it's not something I feel I neee to get help for as it doesn't impact my day to day life. So I'm just wondering is anyone else the same or knows of anyone else the same? It's puzzling cause I'm really not a germaphobe and am fine at my friends house/parents house etc. It's just buses/hotels/caravans/planes/certain restaurants etc.

I'm a germaphobe and I have showed some solidarity to the OP - I have (repeatedly) agreed that this level of cleanliness isn't "normal" but I also don't have any intention of getting this elusive "help" that posters keep referring to. First, I am happy with the situation. I like feeling clean and I happen to be married to someone with the same quirks/mental illness/whatever. It's a preference. I could walk on a hotel carpet in bare feet, but I would feel uncomfortable, grossed out, itchy and it would spoil the rest of my day. Second, this type of phobia is a spectrum (like many things). I have quite a varied diet, others have a restrictive diet because they don't "like" certain tastes, foods or consistencies. (My DM is like this). They restrict their lives accordingly. Do they all have a mental illness too? After all, it's illogical... what about people with severe agoraphobia cf. people who occasionally feel uncomfortable in big crowds? People who have diagnosable social anxiety cf. those who find small talk difficult? My godmother has emetophobia and used to make us all sleep in a caravan in her drive as teens after a night out. I suspect she was certifiable personally, but she never sought "treatment" - these are all strange foibles, but people don't necessarily want to be cured. It is part of who they are (however "infantile" certain posters may find it).

I really don't think excessive cleanliness is something to be medicalised. A GP is not a magician: they will prescribe drugs and put you on a waiting list (for years). Is that really more acceptable than just a bit of "live and let live"?

@Deguster you are in the fortunate position of having a DH who has the same issues.
Anyone with your 'quirks' whose DH does not, or who has children, is preventing them living a normal life. So yes, they should get help.

I'm claustrophobic. Before I had children, I'd go out of my way, and climb many fights of stairs rather than use a lift. But I knew I had to do something about that if I was to bring up confident children. And of course with a pram, avoiding lifts wasn't practical.
So I did something about it. Do I like lifts now? Not really. And there are some horrible car park ones near me that I won't use if I'm on my own. But my kids grew up comfortable with them (and other confined spaces) because I worked on it.

I don't go exploring caves with the family. 'Not my thing, I'll wait outside'. But I've never let my fears restrict them.

We do have DC! They come home from school most days looking as though they've been dragged through a muddy field after a food fight. Which is fine and as it should be.

I also make exceptions for DC when traveling (even though I was frequently retching at some of the grossness I encountered - the revolting changing rooms at Center Parcs being a notable example). The point is that if I am happier and more relaxed when I clean and use slippers, and try to avoid other people's detritus, why the fuck is it something to bother the GP is? We're all different, folks!

You're happier not being in lifts, I'm happier taking steps to eradicate germs. Why is only my behaviour "infantile" and requiring urgent medical intervention (according to some on this thread!)

My fears don't restrict my children either, I don't bring them their own dishes etc. just mine. How is me not going in the swimming pool any different from the example you just provided - swimming 'it's not my thing but on you go'. I've never stopped them and never would. They are absolutely fine and don't give a shit about germs to be honest.

This really isn't normal and while I do sympathise as I know these sorts of conditions are tough, I find it slightly disturbing the number of people who are normalising this on here.

It's not healthy at all to not be able to use a (clean) bath or shower or eat off clean plates. And as PPs have said it must have a massive impact on your family and its really not good to pass this to your children.

It's totally something which people deserve sympathy for but people shouldn't be rushing to make it sound like a normal part of life.

Whether it’s normal is irrelevant - it’s clearly affecting you enough to ruin a holiday so you should seek help for it.

You should talk to your gp as it is impacting your daily life, you're restricting food because of these thoughts, restricting enjoyment and impacting normal behavior. You can get both therapy and/or medicine, the gp will be able to talk through options.

There will probably be a long waiting list for therapy, I went to gp in the end of 2020 because of the same, and it was a long wait, but worth it, to break the obsessive cycle, it only gets worse when you leave it untreated and the at home solutions never "solve it" they just move onto a new thing, like you got a new bath, but then it moves onto the worry about the drains.

It’s typical not to walk with bare feet on dirty carpets in some cultures - if you wore shoes into someone’s house in my husband’s culture for example, that’s extremely insulting. It’s interpreted as “your house is no cleaner than the pavement”.

It may not be “the norm” in the UK but it’s pretty low-level stuff. And since the NHS can’t even cope with strokes and heart attacks right now, it’s probably best to avoid a deluge of middle aged women flocking to their GP’s for talking therapy because their higher cleaning preferences don’t meet MN approval, FFS.

I suspect the real reason people get their pants in a knot over this particular neurosis (over any others, it appears) is because they want their own more relaxed/slovenly approach to be “normal”. Which it probably is in the UK…

Yet you didn't eat on holiday, you could barely get in the shower etc etc...

The effect your behaviour had on your husband ruined the holiday for him. Presumably them, your kids didn't have the best of times either.

How is me not going in the swimming pool any different from the example you just provided - swimming 'it's not my thing but on you go'. I've never stopped them and never would

Children can’t learn to swim without an adult accompanying them - so by not swimming yourself you’re either restricting your children, or forcing someone else (your husband, presumably) to take the whole burden of that part of parenting. The other stuff you describe - that will also either affect them or force your husband to step in to do all the normal bits.

Your fears are irrational. They are affecting more people than you. You should get some help to deal with them. Because these things generally escalate rather than diminish.

Emmm or they go to swimming lessons like they did? And yes my husband takes them swimming, he enjoys it. I take them out cycling - not something my husband enjoys so doesn't join us often.

I suspect the real reason people get their pants in a knot over this particular neurosis (over any others, it appears) is because they want their own more relaxed/slovenly approach to be “normal”. Which it probably is in the U.K.

Aah yes here we have it… it’s not that anyone here has a mental illness it’s that people in the U.K. are slovenly. The question was asked “is the behaviour normal” and the majority of responders have said it’s not. If you want to pitch it as “higher cleaning preferences” go ahead. I think it’s a sad way to live worrying about the imaginary icky things in the air and the opposite of a relaxing holiday but keep telling yourself it’s fine.

I suspect the real reason people get their pants in a knot over this particular neurosis (over any others, it appears) is because they want their own more relaxed/slovenly approach to be “normal”. Which it probably is in the U.K.

Another germophobe appears......

It isn't normal, and I think CBT would help. I think you are in denial saying it won't effect your dc, they will notice and they will internalise an understanding of the world that includes the information that some situations are so dangerous that their dm cannot eat or shower. It is clearly effecting your dh.

Emmm or they go to swimming lessons like they did? And yes my husband takes them swimming, he enjoys it. I take them out cycling - not something my husband enjoys so doesn't join us often.
No one enjoys doing the swimming lesson run, but anyway. No doubt you’re right, you’ll definitely be able to keep this germ phobia from your children, they won’t be affected at all, and your husband won’t feel annoyed by it. (Except he does, because that’s why you posted.)

It’s nothing to me if you deal with it or not, but if you’re feeling defensive about the idea others are affected by it, there’s a reason for that (and a solution if you want one.)

The question was asked “is the behaviour normal” and the majority of responders have said it’s not

Yes, including me - I’ve said it’s not normal several times actually. I’ve also pointed out certain cultural differences/norms that make certain behaviours more typical outside the UK.

I think it’s a sad way to live worrying about the imaginary icky things in the air and the opposite of a relaxing holiday but keep telling yourself it’s fine

I relax more in a place that I’ve cleaned and sanitized when it’s been used by others. It’s not hurting anyone and I can’t imagine it not bothering me, nor do I particularly want to. It seems to have no discernible impact on DC who are walking Petri dishes most of the time. And that’s fine.

As I said, lots of judgment for reasons that are not really clear. Where else on MN would posters go “oooh you’re proper mentally ill, you are!” and it be acceptable?

OP has mentioned several times, that she's unable to eat for days when this problem rears its head. I don't know how anyone here can say that that is normal and should be ignored.

No-one is crowing about this being a mental/psychological condition. They're pointing out that it is, in order to encourage OP to get some help with it so that she and her family can have relaxing holidays, at the very least.

Gah! I have never said it’s normal! I’ve said the opposite. Several times. On this thread.

However, “normal” is a spectrum not an absolute. The faith that people on here have in the availability and effectiveness of NHS psychological therapies to address these behaviours is sweet but misplaced. And it’s a mistake to medicalise everything.

Some of us choose not to swill around in other people’ filth when it can be avoided or mitigated. And that’s not (always) a problem either.

Some of us choose not to swill around in other people’ filth when it can be avoided or mitigated. And that’s not (always) a problem either.

You have an extreme reaction, how do you hide it from your children? I can't imagine you being relaxed with "other people's filth".