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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To not want to raise a child into this vicious, dog-eat-dog, cut-throat country?

330 replies

summergal250 · 08/07/2022 23:44

Really I'm pretty close to giving up on the idea of one day having kids.

Why?

Unless you're rich, everything in the country is just an endless, ceaseless, dog-eat-dog fight over scraps. Day after day, month after month, year after year. I don't want my child to have to deal with this crap.

Examples:
. I'm currently having issues with the landlord over various repairs he's dragging his feet on. His attitude is, if you don't like it move. I pay £700 for this crappy shoebox. I could just move - again - or threaten court action, which as empty as any money I'd get from that would be wiped out by legal fees.

. This is like my 10th rental in 12 years. EVERY single one them had at least one serious issue with it - mice, damp, noise issues, no washing machine, landlords entering property etc. Out all of them only one landlord was actually a decent person - all the rest having been lying, cheating, two-faced money-grubbers. Of course, not a problem if mummy and daddy can give you a deposit. In my 30s yet feel as I'm trapped in a permanent state of being 21.

. I work full time and do freelance in my spare time. I constantly look for new, better paying roles and I have been saving for a deposit for years and as house prices just rise and rise it feels I'm getting nowhere. I'm almost at the point of saying, why bother? How is it fair to raise a kid in some crummy tiny flat? The housing issue has been a problem for 20 years and NOTHING has been done - every year it just gets worse and worse. Meanwhile smug boomers who bought their semi for £80K in 1979 bang on about avocados.

. I got conned into doing a degree which every adult in my teens said would be a ticket to a great future. Instead, all it represents is a massive pile of debt and a waste of three years. Yet, even a receptionist job now insists on a degree, so you have to do it, even though only a degree from Oxbridge or a top redbrick is worth anything these days.

. Jobs - graduated into the recession. I've had jobs where I've been bullied, others with psycho bosses, others with vicious backstabbing 'colleagues'. Constantly the implicit threat of - if you don't like it we'll fire you. Felt I was finally getting somewhere in my old job and then was made redundant during covid. Cue several months of soul-destroying unemployment. The job I have now is ok but less well paid then my old one - so, more struggle, more jostling for favour, wasting more of my free time looking for a better paid jobs, more endless rounds of interviews. I feel like I've been going up the down escalator the entire time. Every year it seems the jobs market gets fiercer, more competitive, more brutal and cut-throat.

. The low pay means I spend large chunks of my free time freelancing. I enjoy it but it can be exhausting. Atm I'm embroiled in a dispute with a client who is refusing to pay for some completed work (with £700) - turns out he's con man with a dodgy past. I'm having to take him to a small claims court - yet more of my time and energy wasted.

. Similar to an occasion a few months back where a hotel Cornwall was nothing like the pics when I got there - it was in a disgusting state. I cancelled and went elsewhere, and then was embroiled in a 3 month battle to get my money back, with the owner only relenting when I got the local council involved.

Spotting a pattern?

If you're not rich in this country everything's just a pointless, exhausting fight to keep your head above water. Every economic interaction is just a vicious bare-knuckle fight, with people out to shaft you for what they can. Honestly, if it wasn't for my family and friends I really would have just given up on the human race.

I won't go into the this country's general lack of manners, the yobbish behaviour of many people here, the rows of homeless tents in out high streets, the crappy education system, the utterly broken and corrupt political system, and the general utter madness society seems to fall further into with every passing year. The quality of life here just deteriorates every year.

So, basically, I don't want to inflict this on a child. My life is worse than my parents - fact. I'm doubt I'll ever reach their level. If you're not rich, children have no future in this country - just an endless treadmill of debt and exploitation. And every trend I've discussed above is getting worse - I just dread to think how things will be when they grew up.

And before people start saying, 'maybe it's you' - believe you me, I've fought coming to these conclusions tooth and nail. Grew up in a firm Old Labour home - solidarity and all that. I used to be the classic caring, sharing, naive people-pleaser - after years of being taken advantage of and shafted I've bit by bit given up. Now all I care about is myself, my family and my immediate friends.

OP posts:
VerveClique · 15/07/2022 23:30

I love that @JocastaElastic !

Louise0701 · 15/07/2022 23:39

YABVU. I’m a similar age to you and don’t recognise any of the things you’ve posted. We haven’t had any money from our parents, either.

I do see a pattern though; your negativity!

BetterFuture1985 · 15/07/2022 23:42

Louise0701 · 15/07/2022 23:39

YABVU. I’m a similar age to you and don’t recognise any of the things you’ve posted. We haven’t had any money from our parents, either.

I do see a pattern though; your negativity!

It's not just "money from parents." Unequal opportunities are not entirely dependent on wads of cash from relatives.

Besides which, if you compare yourself to someone in the same job 30 years your senior I bet they're richer than you can ever hope to be.

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 15/07/2022 23:46

Yanbu. 12 years of increasingly right wing Tory policies have left the future pretty bleak for children born in recent years.

Louise0701 · 15/07/2022 23:46

@BetterFuture1985 maybe they are. But I don’t work, we own 2 large businesses, have rental properties and 2, soon to be 3, children in private school before we hit 40 so I don’t compare to what someone 30 years older than me has as I’m very happy with what we have.
the OP said she was in her 30s and said something along the lines of people her age only being able to buy with money from parents. I was pointing out that this is not the case.

BetterFuture1985 · 16/07/2022 00:19

Louise0701 · 15/07/2022 23:46

@BetterFuture1985 maybe they are. But I don’t work, we own 2 large businesses, have rental properties and 2, soon to be 3, children in private school before we hit 40 so I don’t compare to what someone 30 years older than me has as I’m very happy with what we have.
the OP said she was in her 30s and said something along the lines of people her age only being able to buy with money from parents. I was pointing out that this is not the case.

R.H. Tawney wrote about people like you in Equality. Refer to "tadpole philosophy."

Pumperthepumper · 16/07/2022 13:04

Louise0701 · 15/07/2022 23:46

@BetterFuture1985 maybe they are. But I don’t work, we own 2 large businesses, have rental properties and 2, soon to be 3, children in private school before we hit 40 so I don’t compare to what someone 30 years older than me has as I’m very happy with what we have.
the OP said she was in her 30s and said something along the lines of people her age only being able to buy with money from parents. I was pointing out that this is not the case.

How did you get the money for several rental properties plus business start ups plus private school on only one wage?

GrowlingManchego · 17/07/2022 08:05

That’s a key question isn’t it? And the experience of people now in their 20s is not the same as when people like @Louise0701 were establishing themselves. Most of the decade after the millennium (when people approaching 40 now were starting their careers) was relatively prosperous with a lot more opportunities than today, and cheaper housing and bills relative to wages.

Weirdwonders · 17/07/2022 08:22

I agree with everything you said OP, I feel similarly despite actually owning my own home because I can see that all that’s going to happen from now on is that households will be squeezed for more and more and everything will get harder. Our rights and services are being cut. All facilitated by slightly better off Tory voters who pretend not to see how far we’ve fallen in just 12 years.

Pumperthepumper · 17/07/2022 08:51

It’s a question @Louise0701 is yet to answer too, I hope they come back.

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 09:07

@Pumperthepumper just seen these responses; I’m back! This will be long but happy to explain how we got to where we are.

It’s only since we had our 2nd & 3rd DC that I haven’t worked so initially we had 2 full time wages. We live in a relatively cheap area for housing so that enabled us to get on the property ladder at 21 with a deposit we saved up whilst working.
The first business started as my DH is in construction so we didn’t need any start-up funds as such. He got an apprenticeship out of college (very lucky as he was the only one who got one as this was 2009 and many trades were struggling)
He is very skilled in his trade which meant he quickly made contacts on sites, then after a couple of years decided to run his own gang so took on a couple of labourers and some brickies. Did night school for additional trades so he could offer a “full package”
Then moved into being what is known as a middle man; the house builders will approach him to get gangs onto the sites and he gets a cut of that so he started off earning an extra £1,500 a week without doing any physical work, on top of his own site work wage which by this point was about equivalent to what he was making from the other gangs. Wages were increasing a lot so we were saving a lot of money. Some land came up for sale fairly cheap so we bought that and built 10 houses on it, sold 8 of them and rented 2 out. That made a huge profit. Set up another non construction related business that requires little day to day running but turns a good profit, albeit much smaller than the main business; this smaller business covers the school fees and the remainder goes into a pot for school trips, uniforms etc.
Continued expanding the gangs as a middle man, by now nationwide, and used profits from that to keep buying land, building on them and selling them on, usually retaining 1/2 to rent.
We then put in for a contract with 3 local authorities for new build social housing and won that so now the land we buy is divided into 3; ones to sell, ones we privately rent and social housing. Obviously with the profits growing, the land we buy gets larger each time so the number of properties and therefore profit increases.

We only moved out of the house we bought at 21 last year, by which time it was mortgage free and we sold it for a huge profit.

mimi0708 · 17/07/2022 09:35

YANBU OP. I feel the same way as you. I constantly tell DH that in here you really need to be rich to actually enjoy life or have a good quality of life, everything is done substandard (eg, houses, services you get) but cost a lot. It is so expensive and hard to get proper health and dental care. It's not necessarily the best where I came from as well but we are able to afford a good life with just some money, you don't need to be super rich. Healthcare is not free but you get good insurance deals and you are sure you are treated well. And yes we are thinking of moving away. If not for DH who is from here, I would have moved a long time ago. My friends also who came here were shocked with the standards, it is not what it seemed to us and are feeling depressed. Don't even get me started with how poor childcare is in this country. You get a lot of unqualified people and not so good environments and it is so expensive!

hurtyb · 17/07/2022 09:44

We live in a relatively cheap area for housing so that enabled us to get on the property ladder at 21 with a deposit we saved up whilst working.

were you renting whilst saving? If I could have bought at that age I'd have at least a million in equity!

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 09:50

@hurtyb no, we both lived with our parents until we bought our first home. We didn’t have a million in equity but it 100s of 1000s.

hurtyb · 17/07/2022 10:03

I lived at home to save up but took me longer as London. I think that's a huge help though, if I was renting I likely would have been priced out. Why do you not class that as parental help?

GCHeretic · 17/07/2022 10:17

I don’t really recognize this “dog eat dog” world that the OP mentions. We spent yesterday with ours and the neighbours children all playing in each other’s gardens while the adults chatted, and the night before we sat in next door’s garden being fed and given drinks by the couple who moved in recently.

We we’re both mentored at work, and in turn are now mentoring others.

I see a society where people generally help each other out, and where the state takes every Penny we earn from January into June to pay for services that benefit everyone.

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 10:26

@hurtyb completely the norm for my family and friends. The only people I know who didn’t live at home at 20 years old were the ones who moved away for university.
If we were 30 I would perhaps feel differently but I think the majority of 20 year olds live at home unless studying elsewhere.

hurtyb · 17/07/2022 10:27

I see a society where people generally help each other out, and where the state takes every Penny we earn from January into June to pay for services that benefit everyone.

Lol, I'm pretty sure that's the point of the OP. She's not earning 6 figs, if she was she wouldn't feel like she did.

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 10:28

Completely agree @GCHeretic we do similar with our neighbours and our siblings and parents have all benefited from our successes by way of house deposits and gifted holidays.

hurtyb · 17/07/2022 10:28

@Louise0701 I asked why you didn't class it as help though? I know people who couldn't live at home because jobs were elsewhere, or they didn't get on with parents or no space or some who had to pay market rent because their parents couldn't afford to support them.

hurtyb · 17/07/2022 10:30

I mean my mum left her country at 17 for opportunity elsewhere so I guess it depends on your circle.

Harridance · 17/07/2022 10:35

Given that there's a massive shortage of tech talent in the uk according to recent news stories, you could consider getting into coding etc, you'll end up with a well paid job, they are crying out for people

Louise0701 · 17/07/2022 10:36

@hurtyb and I answered; I don’t class it as help because, to me, it’s normal. I wouldn’t expect any of my children to either move out or pay me rent at 20. If they want to move out or need to do so for work or university, that’s obviously fine, but I certainly wouldn’t expect them to fund living at home or go to rent elsewhere at such a young age.

Jsy7 · 17/07/2022 10:39

I wouldn’t have children in this world. It’s vile.

Harridance · 17/07/2022 10:50

Completely disagree

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