Energy to go up 64% in October

[ToastedWaffle]

And 4% in January.

Fuck sake!
I dont even have an AIBU, this is just fucking ridiculous.

Welcome to Tory Britain, where people have been brainwashed to voting against their own interests.

@Diverseopinions we have a prepay meter which was already here when we moved in it is part of the smart meters. I was going to change them but have actually decided I like them, yes it’s more expensive overall but it helps me to budget, I am paying for exactly what I am using and not getting big bills. The standing charge is outrageous though and that is something that could be dealt with. Is that going up again in October as well?

So you do understand that I do know a lot about energy and that you misread and assumed I said lighting and hot water?

Second - many people have already taken significant steps to reduce energy usage by doing such things. Reducing showers, cutting down heating etc

Because they have had to. Because of the recent price hikes.

So explaining how you have reduced your energy use by cutting down on things is a bit like telling people who are struggling to afford food to cook simpler meals. Many people who are struggling already know that

And the patronising bit was explaining that it's been no hardship.

Because for some people, it will be a hardship.

I was not telling anyone to do anything

so using your analogy, the equivalent was I have saved money by cooking simpler meals NOT “You need to start cooking simpler meals to save money”

None of that energy exists at below market prices now. The shot quality fossil fuels are naturally not extracted first. We’ve gone through all the good, cheap stuff. Now you pay for it and get a worse product as consequence. So yes, you can frack away, but the gas and oil from those wells will be the same as of more expensive by simple reason that they are only economically recoverable with current prices.

Shale oil on the US can only be produced when oil prices are above $60/barrel, else the whole thing falls apart, which OPEC+ managed between 2014 and 2018.

This is like saying we should look for more cheap unleaded at the forecourts when the only stock available anywhere is pricier super unleaded.

They'll put you on a prepayment meter if you don't pay the bill.

It came across that way to me. Apologies for calling it patronising.

I agree that people can make changes to their lifestyle that won't cause hardship and will cut costs.

Turning off lights will make little difference
Reducing heating - of water and air will
Reducing motor use - vacuums etc will
Using devices like TVs now and PCs for a long time is also starting to become a significant power usage - 100 watts device for 8 hours a day, 7 days a week adds up

That is where energy is used in the house.

They wont put everyone in the country on one. I'm predicting riots like the Poll Tax ones.

@EveSix

The issue is that both natural gas and to a lesser extent electricity are internationally traded commodities.

So let's assume for one moment that both the electricity generation sector and the energy supply companies were nationalised.

International gas prices are high so the state owned supply company has a choice of either passing on these high prices to consumers (in which case there is no difference to the current situation) or subsidise them with money which comes from taxpayers so same result in an indirect way.

On electricity, around 40% of power is still made by gas fired generators so the state owned company could refuse to pay the high gas prices in which case the lights go out or pay it and pass the cost to consumers.

The bigger political problem I see is the dumbing down of voters through the rise of populist politics firstly from the right wing with events like Brexit "let's take back control " or let's deport migrants to Rwanda or Trump's MAGA. Which sounds good to the average voter except it doesn't work in reality .

Similarly we are now seeing a rise of populist left wing politics so h as let's nationalise the energy sector to get lower prices for consumers except again it doesn't work in reality .

They do and they will. You can bury your head all you want but it will happen.

Sometimes I think it'll be less stress but it's more expensive that way

I joked recently with colleagues that we should all bring towels and shit in and use the works showers. It was taken as a good idea rather than the joke I intended. People are worried.

No one is burying any heads. It's worse that nobody is taking a stand against this crap.

Does anyone know if it’s worth shopping around? We missed our deadline to fix and now can’t.

Maybe we need 'day centres' for people with a room that is heated and food cooked communally as it's cheaper than a few people in a house cooking for themselves.

Hang out in a pub or a cafe in the evening.

I know there are stories of people riding a bus or the underground just to stay warm

Apology accepted

Nuance and complex systems thinking never was in the syllabus, alas.

People want to have what they had gotten used to, and don’t grok the fact that this whole state of affairs was only ever temporary. The vast majority of humanity throughout history lived nothing like we do. What of the future?

Thanks

Crime is going to go up. It won't be really safe to leave your house unattended for long. People are already nicking fuel from farm machinery.

I understand that people should take a stand but at some point will anyone have the energy? It'll probably get to really desperate measures to get to that point. Especially in the UK.

Oh but it does work like that. Look at countries which have nationalised suppliers. Nationalised energy is cheaper - especially when the sources of energy wind farms, north sea oil etc are also nationalised.

The price cap for prepayment customers is currently £2017 p/a for average use where it is £1971 p/a for duel fuel customers. So only a £46 a year difference.

Prepayment used to be the more expensive option as there were plenty of deals available far under the price cap. The price cap is no longer a ceiling but a floor price.

It doesn't seem to that prominent on much of today's news sites - so I guess this warning about what will happen will just fade away until October.

I really hope that the Opposition parties develop a cost of living strategy and can be seen to want to be talking about what they would do to reduce the cost of energy.

Some 'blue sky' thinking might be needed.

I agree, using a shower and an electric one at that for 15 mins is absurd.
As is opening windows whilst the heating is one because it's too warm to let some fresh air in.😂

Statistics say up to 55% of heating the home is wasted and unnecessary.
The thermostat down, boiler stat down to 50c, and hot water down to 45-50c let the boiler modulate. Rather than burning like a bloody furnace.
Common sense.
I visit customers' houses with the stat set to 21-30c, it's like working in a steam engine. Daft.
Pay for what you use, rather than making payments for future usage.

The Catch 22 is that there are people who can't afford to make changes such as more efficient boilers, heating systems, insulation etc because they have to spend a lot of money on energy making monthly repayments or even saving up for energy efficient changes. Those who have money can afford to invest in energy efficient changes.

Government needs to be looking at grants or subsidised energy efficient changes for houses.

I read somewhere that you've to keep the hot water stat on the boiler at 60 or above to prevent legionalla. I had mine turned down to 55 but then I read and put it back up again.