Page 4 | To think men are still expected to earn more than women (relationships)

PollyDarton1 · 08/07/2022 13:29

Me and my ex have split now, but we were level in terms of salary before I left. I think I'm ever so slightly ahead of him now with a recent pay rise, but he has more on the job experience than me - if I went in for more training, I would easily out earn him.

From my OLD experiences, I've either been around or earning more than those I've spoken to. I certainly wouldn't expect someone I'm dating to necessarily be earning the same/more than me. I'd probably find it difficult to date someone who was a very low wage earner due to my lifestyle (I like eating out, trips away etc) but I wouldn't discount it completely.

My focus is more of ensuring that women are paid equal salaries to their male counterparts, and if they don't, the reasons why. It's easy to say "children" and pretend that's acceptable, but it isn't.

JustForThisThread13 · 08/07/2022 13:49

RaisinGhost · 08/07/2022 10:48

I wish the men I know had got that memo. I've out earned all my partners and so have most of my female friends.

Sometimes I think equality between the sexes has meant men have shrugged off the one thing they were expected to do (support the family financially). However they haven't picked up any of the womens expected responsibilities. So you have many women who are the breadwinners, who also do everything at home. With male partners who don't feel any responsibility towards anything.

yes!!! This.

I separated and divorced 5 years ago. I'm a single parent. Working full time. With a bloody decent career/earnings.

My DD shares her time between me and her dad.

So, I'm financially sound, have my own house, and carry all the mental load for me and DD. And I can do it.
I don't have family around, but I have excellent friend I can use as a sounding board for any big decisions needed.

So, actually, if I meet a guy who's not at least my equivalent in carrying the mental load, life admin etc. I just think nah, you just want someone to do that for you. Couple that with lower earnings too and we're just not compatible.

I think I'll keep adopting cats.

Quincythequince · 08/07/2022 13:52

Men on average for similar positions, earn more. The expectation is borne out of fact.

SandieCollins · 08/07/2022 13:53

SleepDreamThinkHuge · 08/07/2022 09:13

Do you think this is still the case in a lot of relationships? Is this still true in countries like UK, USA etc..

Are you writing an article for a crappy newspaper or doing some research for school?

Quincythequince · 08/07/2022 13:53

And for the record, I earn very well (my husband earns way more of that’s relevant).

I have three kids and if I were to be in a position to meet someone and pursue a committed relationship, he would have to be a good earner.

D0lphine · 08/07/2022 13:54

Actually I don't think I've ever had a partner who earns more than me!

I'd love to have one though we'd be loaded! Haha

KingofLoss · 08/07/2022 13:55

I’m completely unashamed to say that when I was dating for a serious relationship (leading to marriage and kids) I absolutely only considered men who earned the same as me or more. I’ve worked extremely hard to get to where I am (which might not be much to many MN posters, but to me is more than I ever imagined earning). I’ve been bankrupt in my early twenties due to ill health and no support. Lived in poverty, and clawed my way out, knew I didn’t want to raise a child in a home unless it was financially secure and having only ever had relationships with very low earners knew that I wouldn’t want to have kids with someone who couldn’t provide.

I think it’s understandable when in a heterosexual relationship with children planned a woman’s career usually takes a hit. I didn’t expect someone to outearn me but I did expect someone to match me.

KingofLoss · 08/07/2022 13:56

JustForThisThread13 · 08/07/2022 13:49

yes!!! This.

I separated and divorced 5 years ago. I'm a single parent. Working full time. With a bloody decent career/earnings.

My DD shares her time between me and her dad.

So, I'm financially sound, have my own house, and carry all the mental load for me and DD. And I can do it.
I don't have family around, but I have excellent friend I can use as a sounding board for any big decisions needed.

So, actually, if I meet a guy who's not at least my equivalent in carrying the mental load, life admin etc. I just think nah, you just want someone to do that for you. Couple that with lower earnings too and we're just not compatible.

I think I'll keep adopting cats.

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That’s it. I wanted someone who was my equivalent.

no fucking way was I going to bear someone’s child if they weren’t capable of shouldering the load for our family while I took time off to carry, deliver and raise a baby.

Villagewaspbyke · 08/07/2022 14:08

AchatAVendre · 08/07/2022 13:02

But not so often in the traditional professions. I'm a lawyer and most lawyers I know are married to other lawyers or doctors, dentists, etc. that they met at university. The only one whom I can think of who is not is married to a waste of space man. It was a big surprise to me when I married DH (engineer) that when I met some of his work colleagues' wives (only one of his colleagues was a woman) that they often didn't work. Not particularly high earners either, although they think they are Not only that, none of his colleagues ever ask me what I do for a living.

Management and engineering and I'm sure some other fields are a bit of an outlier in this IMHO. Farming is an interesting one - increasingly, medium sized farms make no money and are a tax writeoff and the wife will work in a well paid job to provide for living expenses, while getting a nice house with land in the countryside to live in.

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I know quite a few male city lawyers married to primary teachers, secretaries, etc. nothing wrong with any of those jobs but it’s interesting that I don’t know anything like as many female city lawyers who did the same. Same with drs married to nurses. Although I agree that these days people tend to marry those in an equivalent type job certainly much more than they used to.

i know a subset of city lawyers and bankers who like to date lower earning women. I would steer well clear as they’re pretty creepy imo.

Villagewaspbyke · 08/07/2022 14:12

KingofLoss · 08/07/2022 13:56

That’s it. I wanted someone who was my equivalent.

no fucking way was I going to bear someone’s child if they weren’t capable of shouldering the load for our family while I took time off to carry, deliver and raise a baby.

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Surely your equivalent is someone who would also take time off and do their share of the childcare? Why is childcare your responsibility and earning money is his?

Villagewaspbyke · 08/07/2022 14:17

Tbf as a single mum and sole earner in my household, I wouldn’t want to have to financially support a husband or partner (at least long term). But I think that’s fair enough if men feel that way too. Also I don’t want them to support me either- im an adult.

KingofLoss · 08/07/2022 14:23

Villagewaspbyke · 08/07/2022 14:12

Surely your equivalent is someone who would also take time off and do their share of the childcare? Why is childcare your responsibility and earning money is his?

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It isn’t. We both work part time and care for our child. I didn’t want a spouse I had to carry financially, I wanted someone who was my equal so we had options and could have an equal as possible set up.

KingofLoss · 08/07/2022 14:24

Villagewaspbyke · 08/07/2022 14:12

Surely your equivalent is someone who would also take time off and do their share of the childcare? Why is childcare your responsibility and earning money is his?

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When referring to time off to be pregnant, deliver and raise a baby I was referring to mat leave. He also took six months out from his usual job and did locum work a few days of the month so we were both at home for a lot of the first year.

AmberGer · 08/07/2022 14:24

I earn more per hour than dh, but he works more hours than me, so overall he earns more

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 08/07/2022 14:28

I don't think men are expected to earn more than women these days. But it does amaze me how many women on Mumsnet seem to earn 2 - or even 3 or 4 times more than their husband. I have seen claims of 10 times more from some women on here. Weird, because in real life I don't know any woman who earns waaaaaay more than her husband/partner. There are a small amount who earn maybe 20-30% more, or even 50% more (so like he is on £33K and she is on £40K-45K,) but not double, triple, quadruple, ten times more etc...

Greenberg · 08/07/2022 14:30

Coffeaddict · 08/07/2022 09:39

I earn more then my OH.

To the poster saying women take more of a financial hit that highly depends on the relationship. We did shared parental leave with my last pregnancy and will do it again with this one. My partner does half of sick days. I do nursery runs as the nursery is beside my work but the remainder of the house stuff is balanced between us.

I don't think it's expected that women take the burden and certainly not a concept I would accept in my relationship.

Would you say your situation is typical?

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 08/07/2022 14:33

Also, I see a lot of 'DH earns a reaaaallly high amount, but I earn more... or 'I earn a reeeeally high amount, but DH earns shitloads too, but not as much as meeeeeeeeeee..' Accompanied by 'we are both in the high tax paying bracket.' Paid £7000 in tax between us last month.' etc etc etc... 🙄

AchatAVendre · 08/07/2022 14:43

Villagewaspbyke · 08/07/2022 14:08

I know quite a few male city lawyers married to primary teachers, secretaries, etc. nothing wrong with any of those jobs but it’s interesting that I don’t know anything like as many female city lawyers who did the same. Same with drs married to nurses. Although I agree that these days people tend to marry those in an equivalent type job certainly much more than they used to.

i know a subset of city lawyers and bankers who like to date lower earning women. I would steer well clear as they’re pretty creepy imo.

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Yes, agree with all that. I'd consider teaching on a par with being a lawyer. Definitely the creep male city lawyers seeking out women with fewer options to tell them to get lost when they cheat/are shouty, etc! But otherwise I know of few successful men who are married to women who have done nothing all their lives, although some of those women might have had a career change or a temporary hiatus.

rainbowmilk · 08/07/2022 15:15

hotcoldnotsold · 08/07/2022 11:38

I notice in the UK there's a very large proportion of girls and women who still don't make career choices that will lead to financial independence. Still the expectation that they'll meet a partner who will help them. Until they're either single mothers or divorced, they don't seem to realise that earning enough (whatever that may entail) to support you is the real emancipation. It's also telling that a lot of the lowest paying careers in society, also the least practical education pathways, are still female dominated. This isn't patriarchy at play because other far more patriarchal and impoverished countries will have women who've managed to get an education, looking to be financially independent. Look at all the immigrant and expat women in the UK who move here expressly to earn money. I think it's down to parents and educators to tell young girls they should focus on learning skills and doing jobs that can support them, are the future, and not just following a passion. Like we do with young boys. Also teaching them young how to negotiate pay and be confident.

Completely agree. I moan a lot about being single and childless, because if I think about the fact that I only have myself to keep the roof over my head, and about the fact that it's working FT until I retire, I get wobbly. But at the same time, knowing that barring some kind of unforeseen dreadfulness, I don't need anyone to support me, and can absolutely rely on myself, is an amazing feeling. My sister hasn't been single for longer than a month since she was 14, and whilst she's now perfectly settled and happy, it drove me mad that she needed to have a man in her life. I never wanted to be in a position where I was reliant on a man, ever. And thank God, I'm not.

FrankLampardsBrokenHand · 08/07/2022 15:25

I think whilst more men are the higher earner in a relationship, there isn't an expectation that this should be the case.

prinnycessa · 08/07/2022 15:29

I don't expect men to earn more than women but I think that society still does expect this to a certain extent. As PP have said, maternity leaves and women being expected to be the main carer in the family can cause our careers to take a significant hit, especially salaries.

My husband has always earned more than me until recently and he is happy that my salary has increased as that means we have more options and choices about how to spend the money. I cannot say definitively that he has no issues with it at all but from what I've seen he is happy about it as we consider the money to be collectively ours. In any event, we both earn well so even though I do earn more than him, he wouldn't be destitute if I wasn't around.

Personally, I am fine earning more but I think I would get less anxiety about maternity leave and going part time if he earned more than me. But equally, I understand we're lucky to have a good household income so it's not a massive issue.

If I'm honest, I wouldn't want my husband to be a low earner as such with no increased earning potential. DH has great earning potential and to me, that is a sense of security. Also, I love to travel, eat out and I do like luxury things which is fine as I can afford that myself. But I think it could be more difficult to justify if there was a massive imbalance in the relationship? I wouldn't like that so would want someone who is relatively equal or with the potential to be equal.

Villagewaspbyke · 08/07/2022 18:02

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 08/07/2022 14:28

I don't think men are expected to earn more than women these days. But it does amaze me how many women on Mumsnet seem to earn 2 - or even 3 or 4 times more than their husband. I have seen claims of 10 times more from some women on here. Weird, because in real life I don't know any woman who earns waaaaaay more than her husband/partner. There are a small amount who earn maybe 20-30% more, or even 50% more (so like he is on £33K and she is on £40K-45K,) but not double, triple, quadruple, ten times more etc...

I used to earn about 3-4 times what my ex earned when we were together. I worked with other women too and my ex had a reasonable professional job so I don’t think it’s that unusual. I think it’s about a quarter of couples where women outearn men.

SmallThingsEverywhere · 08/07/2022 22:32

Not sure that there is an expectation rather that due to reasons already given by PP, men earn more than women.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 09/07/2022 00:43

Honestly I don’t think this is a thing in the US… or maybe it is and I just haven’t seen it in my circles? (I travel in diverse circles)

Interesting topic though… I’ve started 3 different trains of thought and back tracked! I’ll try to pick one and stick with it!

I don’t think men are expected to make more than women, and I’m not even sure they do as a rule. Generally It’s pretty even from what I can gather (I don’t spend a lot of time grilling my friends on their finances). Most I know have a spouse in a more or less similar ’rank’ as their spouse. So either they are both in lower , middle, or higher salary range. (Admittedly I don’t really know any ‘Ladies who Lunch’). From what I’ve seen if there is a big difference in earning, it really is split pretty even who has job that would earn more.

You can’t even reliably use the ‘blue collar’ vs. ‘white collar’ as a good indicator of earnings. I have a white collar job while my husband has a blue collar job and we’re pretty close to even on salary (we’re w/in 30K of each other) but over or lifetimes he’ll end up making more than me due to his pension. I had to tell my boss when asked what it would take to relocate me that the company couldn’t afford it. We’re committed now to his job (and location) because of the pension.

One big difference between the UK and US is going to be the maternity leave. Sure there are a fair amount of women who leave the workforce after having children, but it’s not as common I don’t think. 12 weeks is more or less a blip on the radar as far as a career goes, and part time work is not as common here at the professional level. So generally speaking, a woman has a baby, and picks up right where she’s left off at her current job. So I think there is less ‘moody tracking’.

All of this is anecdotal, but it is based on 20+ years as a professional + knowing a fair amount of detail of those in other professions and walks of life.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 09/07/2022 00:46

Oh crap… how about mommy track 🤣