To think men are still expected to earn more than women (relationships)

[SleepDreamThinkHuge]

Do you think this is still the case in a lot of relationships? Is this still true in countries like UK, USA etc..

Don't young women earn more than young men now?

I remember back in 2014ish that the ONS published figures that showed between the ages of 22 and 29 women earned more then their male counterparts but that rapidly reversed after 30. Not sure what the current figures are.

Might be snobby

Not at all, when I was OLD I did view poorly paid careers or no defined career negatively. I have been poor, its crap, I now earn a lot and I like my lifestyle and do not want to compromise that, I would rather be with someone who is financially independent. Sorry.

What do you mean by "expected to" OP? Do you mean that employers expect to pay men in relationships more than women due to indirect discrimination or that women practice hypergamy?

I think hypergamy is a bigger thing in the US than the UK (cannot speak for Australia) but in the UK the professions have been full of women working for high salaries for decades now. There are many, many high earning women in the UK. In non-English speaking countries, those opportunities for women are not necessarily there so it may be more of an expectation in those countries than here.

Of course some British women still deliberately marry up but I don't know how realistic it is for degree educated or higher earning women to deliberately set out to do this, because many men here simply don't earn that much. It would obviously be easier for a non-working woman to marry a man who earns more than her.

Then theres the women who stop working, often temporarily, to raise children, often returning to the workforce. But overall, I'd say no to your question, its not "expected".

I know that Jordan Peterson if very popular in the US for talking about hypergamy, but he comes across as very dated and limited in his opinions on this point to a British perspective. Of course, there will always be a sector of male society that insists that women marry for money and so on, but that sector don't seem to marry higher earning women or even be aware of the high numbers of high earning women that there are now, so it seems over-represented, at best.

I think, when you're in your early 20s and finishing uni, nobody knows how things are going to pan out and nobody fully realises the impact of having children, particularly on a woman. You really can't know how you will feel until children come along.

So I don't think it's that women consciously 'expect' men to be higher earners, but perhaps they are more attracted to men who seem to have an idea where they're going in life - or seem more driven / competent?

You may never want to take time off for children beyond the minimum, but regardless, it's nice to have the choice.

I also think that having the desire to provide for your family is an attractive quality in men - whether you need them to or not. I respect my husband for having this type of mindset, yes. There is a lot to be said for it. Put it this way, I'd far rather that than the alternative - ie the " let's have separate finances so you can be 'independent' " type of man - aka a tight-fisted twit.

I think most people (even subconsciously) still buy into the sexist out dated notion of men as providers, women as carers, yes.

They shouldn't. But they do.

I also think that having the desire to provide for your family is an attractive quality in men -

It's annoys me that in a mother it's seen as a negative

When i first got together with my partner he said he was overwhlemed with the feeling to protect and provide for me and it made him, at 50, feel baffled. I am financially independent, had my kids etc but he said that the instinct just felt so strong.

Seems to have waned now though the honeymoon period is easing off. Still very happy but just not as madly intense.

That's a fair expectation considering how much easier it is for a man to earn more.

Growing up women can often be discouraged from male dominated (high paying) careers.

If you meet a man vs woman in their forties, both divorced but have kids, odds are it's been easier for a man to get to a high income.

This is slowly changing but realistically it's still a lot easier for a man due to a number of factors, from social to political/legal (ex. Parental leave).

Not to mention 25 years ago if you were a white man you'd probably have to try hard not to have a better career/income than a minority group or women.

I earn significantly more than my DH.

Before him, I dated men who earned less, but who were also younger so kind of reversed the patrichal model.

I'd say culturally it's the default assumption still in the UK that the man earns more, but in reality not always the case.

My DH is always still given the bill at restaurants even when I am the one with my card out, people are always surprised to hear I am the higher earner when it's brought up in discussion.

No but it is usually the case. I wouldn't say it is expected now. I earn more than double my dh at my FTE and still earn a lot more only working 3 days to his 5.

My mum also earned a gd bit more than my dad. She kept progressing and he changed careers never earning as well as before.

I also have 2 friends that earn a lot more than their dh. One is about £10K higher and the other similar to me more than double her dh.

I wish the men I know had got that memo. I've out earned all my partners and so have most of my female friends.

Sometimes I think equality between the sexes has meant men have shrugged off the one thing they were expected to do (support the family financially). However they haven't picked up any of the womens expected responsibilities. So you have many women who are the breadwinners, who also do everything at home. With male partners who don't feel any responsibility towards anything.

How do people know what men on datings apps earn? Is it compulsory to announce your salary there? How vulgar.

I don't think men are expected to earn more as much now as many women are high earners, BUT I do think that societal expectations of women make it harder when a couple starts a family and this is the dynamic.

More and more women are ending up in the position of being the breadwinner but also still ending up managing all the logistics of the home and any children.

On MN, I see a lot of women saying that their husbands expect them to be SAHMs. I’m sure they’re telling the truth. But in RL, I know far more men who absolutely don’t want to shoulder the burden of sole wage earning - they expect women to earn money as well as doing everything at home.

I completely agree with this. I look around at my friends and I see women totally burnt out by trying to do everything they would have done in the 50s plus earn money. While the men are enjoying life not having to be sole provider.

@GlitteryGreen

More fool them for doing it.

On these boards lots of women seem keen enough to assign themselves the carer role

Surely this comes down to the fact we live in a patriarchal society therefore it's by design that men will often out earn women. Having said that I don't think I could date someone who I out earn but each to their own.

I suppose they can tell by the lifestyle, maybe lack of home ownership, job title?

In my experience that is generally the case. I'm a medical professional in emergency medicine but my husband has always earnt at least three times my salary and I only ever took 12 weeks of maternity leave. My mother is a lawyer and yet my father must earn 10 times her salary. Two of my sisters haven't worked since they had their first child and most of my friends work part-time. I only know one of my female friends who is the higher earner and all she ever does is moan about it.

Men do tend to earn more - between maternity and sexism

But I also think it's challenging to the ego for a man to be the lower earner - society pressure works on them too

If women choose to marry higher-earning men, if anyone's career needs to be sacrificed for the family, it will be financially logical for it to be theirs.

And note the men aren't higher-earning because women are paid less for doing the same job, the average new husband earns more because he's slightly older.

I think there's a big difference between saying 'Men earn more than their female partners, on average' and 'Men are expected to earn more'. The former is unquestionably true. The latter is debatable. No doubt there are some people who still think the man should be the higher earner, and there are men (idiots) who would feel emasculated if they weren't. But I don't think that's the norm any more, fortunately.

I've always earned more than my significant partners.