Page 5 | To think yellow box fines are f***ed up

Stickystitch · 2022-07-04T21:16:18+00:00

I have to pay Merton council £65 for stopping in a yellow box for 4 seconds because a lorry ahead of me broke suddenly - a car ahead of them randomly stopped dead in flowing traffic, waited, then took a sharp (and illegal) u-turn at the junction. I assume this car and the lorry also got fined. I was doing max 20mph (local speed limit) and there was plenty of room between me and the lorry when the traffic was moving. The council has rejected my appeal and said I should have waited for all traffic ahead of me to exit the yellow box before entering it. The yellow box in this case is HUGE, maybe 5 car lengths. Who stops dead at a traffic junction, in full flowing traffic, to wait for all the cars ahead to cross? I have never been fined for anything in my life, never even had a parking ticket and I'm absolutely furious. Fining people £65 for shit like this needs to stop. That's more than my weekly budget gone.. and for what?

CointreauVersial · 05/07/2022 13:36

I read this article about box junctions recently - lots of examples where they don't comply with regulations, and unsuspecting motorists end up being fined unfairly if they aren't familiar with the law. The RAC have a campaign going. And this is a very interesting insight.....

"Many people mistakenly believe that if you are stopped in a box, then you are guilty. However, it is not that simple. The regulations state:
“a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.”
There are two key takeaways from this:
“Cause a vehicle to enter” means that the offence is committed at the moment you enter the box. If when you enter your exit is clear, but circumstances change afterwards, such as a vehicle changing lanes and blocking your exit, then there is no offence.
“Due to the presence of stationary vehicles” means that If you stop for another reason, for example a red light, or to let a pedestrian cross the road, there is no offence.
Adjudication decisions have found in favour of motorists on both these issues."

Rosehugger · 05/07/2022 13:47

But, only if the right turn exit is clear and it's oncoming traffic that's preventing you from making the turn / exit.

Or you are being prevented by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

Rosehugger · 05/07/2022 13:51

I wish that cars (and coaches - they are the worst) would be fined for stradding pedestrian crossings in London. You wait fucking ages to cross then some twat of an HGV blocks the way, when clearly the lights were about to change and there was not going to be enough space for them to clear the crossing. Then pedestrians have to dodge through traffic to get across.

Saracen · 05/07/2022 13:51

CointreauVersial · 05/07/2022 13:36

I read this article about box junctions recently - lots of examples where they don't comply with regulations, and unsuspecting motorists end up being fined unfairly if they aren't familiar with the law. The RAC have a campaign going. And this is a very interesting insight.....

"Many people mistakenly believe that if you are stopped in a box, then you are guilty. However, it is not that simple. The regulations state:
“a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.”
There are two key takeaways from this:
“Cause a vehicle to enter” means that the offence is committed at the moment you enter the box. If when you enter your exit is clear, but circumstances change afterwards, such as a vehicle changing lanes and blocking your exit, then there is no offence.
“Due to the presence of stationary vehicles” means that If you stop for another reason, for example a red light, or to let a pedestrian cross the road, there is no offence.
Adjudication decisions have found in favour of motorists on both these issues."

Thanks! Really interesting.

SerendipityJane · 05/07/2022 14:40

Rosehugger · 05/07/2022 13:51

I wish that cars (and coaches - they are the worst) would be fined for stradding pedestrian crossings in London. You wait fucking ages to cross then some twat of an HGV blocks the way, when clearly the lights were about to change and there was not going to be enough space for them to clear the crossing. Then pedestrians have to dodge through traffic to get across.

Now multiply by 1,000 for people in wheelchairs.

LibrariesGiveUsPower · 05/07/2022 14:46

You broke the rules, you’re not meant to cross till the exit is clear.

girlmom21 · 05/07/2022 14:48

QuebecBagnet · 05/07/2022 09:57

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I interpret the exit being clear as the road at the other side being clear. It doesn’t say the box must be clear. Guess I’d have got fined too. 😁

It's your exit, not the exit.

VoiceaFromUranus · 05/07/2022 14:53

You broke the rule, it's really that simple.

Is it harsh? No, not really. At best it's unlucky in the same way that getting a speeding ticket for 74 could be.

I will admit my violin is very tiny because trying to turn right across the box junction (single lane for cars approaching from the right) is usually full of stationary vehicles. Because you've got to move that twenty yards further forwards at all costs.

blebbleb · 05/07/2022 15:11

Rosehugger · 05/07/2022 13:51

I wish that cars (and coaches - they are the worst) would be fined for stradding pedestrian crossings in London. You wait fucking ages to cross then some twat of an HGV blocks the way, when clearly the lights were about to change and there was not going to be enough space for them to clear the crossing. Then pedestrians have to dodge through traffic to get across.

Yes! Buses are some of the worst culprits too.

LouisRenault · 05/07/2022 17:00

Yes! Buses are some of the worst culprits too.

Yes, this is one of the reasons I didn't like bendy buses. They were always blocking pedestrian crossings.

BeenToldComputerSaysNo · 06/07/2022 11:30

It's a clear rule OP. I share your frustration though! Theoretically all cars would need to keep a 5 car distance between them in the junction you describe, which seems unrealistic and not conducive to congestion easing.

Bigoldmachine · 06/07/2022 11:34

Who stops dead at a traffic junction, in full flowing traffic, to wait for all the cars ahead to cross?

people who don’t want / can’t afford the fine! It’s enough to make me wait for the clear box so I guess it works!

riesenrad · 06/07/2022 11:35

Rosehugger · 05/07/2022 13:51

I wish that cars (and coaches - they are the worst) would be fined for stradding pedestrian crossings in London. You wait fucking ages to cross then some twat of an HGV blocks the way, when clearly the lights were about to change and there was not going to be enough space for them to clear the crossing. Then pedestrians have to dodge through traffic to get across.

Yes it is really annoying, it happens all the time.

blebbleb · 06/07/2022 11:47

I never actually noticed cameras on box junctions! I don't think I've blocked one before but will be more cautious now. I drive through Merton every morning and evening.

Autienotnaughtie · 10/07/2022 03:40

Ok so since this thread started I've be looking, where I live (northern town) I have not come across a single box junction. My ils live in a northern city I have spotted one very small box junction (I'd say roughly 4 by 4. And that's it! Will definitely no to watch out for them going forward. Also sil had never heard of them either.

mjf981 · 10/07/2022 04:12

At least you're not in Australia - the fines here are insane. $1078 (614 pounds) is the fine for not wearing a seatbelt in Queensland!!!!

jharley78 · 10/07/2022 04:17

Stickystitch · 04/07/2022 23:01

I knew MNers would be waving their rule books at me lol. In this case, it was about 8pm, there was no congestion at all, a clear road ahead.

What you're saying is cars are expected to slam their breaks on in free flowing traffic to wait for the car/s ahead to clear the junction/yellow box before proceeding? I don't think so. Who does that? Could cause an accident.

In one post you say it was full flowing traffic in another post you say it was clear and free flowing. It may be my misunderstanding of your words but to me they sound the opposite?

YBGuru · 02/03/2023 22:26

CointreauVersial · 05/07/2022 13:36

I read this article about box junctions recently - lots of examples where they don't comply with regulations, and unsuspecting motorists end up being fined unfairly if they aren't familiar with the law. The RAC have a campaign going. And this is a very interesting insight.....

"Many people mistakenly believe that if you are stopped in a box, then you are guilty. However, it is not that simple. The regulations state:
“a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.”
There are two key takeaways from this:
“Cause a vehicle to enter” means that the offence is committed at the moment you enter the box. If when you enter your exit is clear, but circumstances change afterwards, such as a vehicle changing lanes and blocking your exit, then there is no offence.
“Due to the presence of stationary vehicles” means that If you stop for another reason, for example a red light, or to let a pedestrian cross the road, there is no offence.
Adjudication decisions have found in favour of motorists on both these issues."

Very interesting thread. Thats my article and I now have a new website with info for appealing if anybody gets a ticket in future. I have a lot of sympathy for you OP. For those saying Its "simple", no it's not, it's a very complicated topic. For a start most people quote the Highway Code as if it is the law.