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Original poster

To think yellow box fines are f***ed up

118 replies

Stickystitch · 04/07/2022 22:16

I have to pay Merton council £65 for stopping in a yellow box for 4 seconds because a lorry ahead of me broke suddenly - a car ahead of them randomly stopped dead in flowing traffic, waited, then took a sharp (and illegal) u-turn at the junction. I assume this car and the lorry also got fined. I was doing max 20mph (local speed limit) and there was plenty of room between me and the lorry when the traffic was moving.

The council has rejected my appeal and said I should have waited for all traffic ahead of me to exit the yellow box before entering it. The yellow box in this case is HUGE, maybe 5 car lengths. Who stops dead at a traffic junction, in full flowing traffic, to wait for all the cars ahead to cross? I have never been fined for anything in my life, never even had a parking ticket and I'm absolutely furious. Fining people £65 for shit like this needs to stop. That's more than my weekly budget gone.. and for what?

OP posts:
CandyLeBonBon · 04/07/2022 23:21

Autienotnaughtie · 04/07/2022 23:10

@LubaLuca I've been driving 25 years! I also did a speed awareness course a couple of years ago. Never got mentioned on that either.

You've been driving 25 years and you've never heard of a box junction?

HeleenaHandcart · 04/07/2022 23:22

I had a really fucking annoying one the other day. My exit was clear as I entered the box, and remained clear but I was blocked.
The roundabout has a box junction, a major A road flows across it and it enables people to enter the roundabout as it is often queuing.
I however wasn’t going onto the A road and continuing in the queue, I was taking the exit onto the industrial estate immediately in front of me, totally clear.
A woman however decided I must be continuing to the A road and cut across me after I entered the very long box. Crossing the give way line as she believed I should be waiting before the box as there was no space after the box for me if I was continuing round the roundabout. We were then inching on each other and she got so angry driving across my path and beeping, preventing me from exiting by blocking me across with her car. Had she just let me fucking pass and exit the roundabout to the clear exit she’d have been in the place my car was. I was pointing to where I was going but she couldn’t get it, she was determined she had the right to enter the roundabout and queue for the a road exit and wouldn’t let me squeeze past. Imagine her almost at a 90 degree angle in front of my bonnet as I tried to exit.
It was ducking pointless too for her as the exit after the box had a van in the way, even if I wasn’t present she’d have been forced to stop in the box. She just made me stop too.

CandyLeBonBon · 04/07/2022 23:22

Also, Op - we need a diagram!!

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 23:27

I have never seen anyone in real life in free flowing traffic have every car stop before the box and waits for it to become clear before proceeding when you can clearly see there is no obstruction

Never seen it either.

19lottie82 · 04/07/2022 23:52

There’s a junction near me and when the lights change to green during rush hour no one can go anywhere as there idiots sitting in the box. No sympathy from me, sorry.

carefullycourageous · 04/07/2022 23:54

RumJerrySailorRum · 04/07/2022 22:30

Annoying because, let's be right, we all do it. (Like speeding)

BUT we all know we shouldn't so if we get caught, tough shit, you take the consequences.

No we don't all do it.

carefullycourageous · 04/07/2022 23:58

Sorry op but you're firmly in the wrong. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

takeitandleaveit · 05/07/2022 00:07

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 23:27

I have never seen anyone in real life in free flowing traffic have every car stop before the box and waits for it to become clear before proceeding when you can clearly see there is no obstruction

Never seen it either.

I did just that today.

Anyway, in free-flowing traffic moving at a reasonable speed, you should be far enough away from the vehicle in front that they are already clearing the box and moving away by the time you enter it. So you can see that it is clear.

PipeScatter · 05/07/2022 00:07

PeterCannaeRun · 04/07/2022 23:08

Ds is learning to drive and is watching videos on all highway code rules. I have never seen anyone in real life in free flowing traffic have every car stop before the box and waits for it to become clear before proceeding when you can clearly see there is no obstruction. You usually enter if you can see that the box will clear.

You can get fined if you enter a box turning right and then your exit suddenly becomes blocked. So legally using it but then cannot exit, even if you move your car to try to clear the blockage. The driving instructor suggests dash cam footage can help you appeal fines. Here is an example

This is an excellent video! its even helped me clarify the rules on stopping on pedestrian crossings.

well worth a watch OP.

hatchyu · 05/07/2022 00:10

@takeitandleaveit and where was the magical place? I assume it's wasn't a long box?

PipeScatter · 05/07/2022 00:10

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 23:27

I have never seen anyone in real life in free flowing traffic have every car stop before the box and waits for it to become clear before proceeding when you can clearly see there is no obstruction

Never seen it either.

thats because you don’t have to stop. You just can only proceed if the exit is clear. If you can see it’s clear, there’s no reason to stop.

The video above explains it all really clearly.

LaFeuilleMorte · 05/07/2022 00:16

I’ve never stopped in a box junction because I do a lot of city driving and have had to endure the gridlock when a bunch of twats decide they won’t wait for the exit to be clear and get stuck on the box when lights change. If you’re keeping a safe distance you can see if you’re going to be able to get across without the need for heavy braking, and if traffic is moving slowly it’s easy to wait outside the box and only cross when a car-length gap is available on the other side. I am totally sure that none of the idiots behind who use their horns to persuade me to get in the box would volunteer to pay my fine if I took their excellent advice.

Bluebellsand · 05/07/2022 00:31

Op, I have share your anger. It was my second ticket (first ticket I overstayed by 2min in a shopping area), a van overtook me (and presumably others based on its speed) whilst I was on the actual yellow box driving straight. Then stopped in front of me. I could have hit him or emergency stop and get the fine. I picked the later option.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 05/07/2022 00:43

I do. I always wait until I'm sure I'll get all the way across. Cameras on box junctions are rife in London.

eurochick · 05/07/2022 05:36

I feel your pain. I received my only fine in over 20 years of driving in one of these. Two lanes of traffic, I was in the right hand lane. It's a big junction in London. Traffic in both lanes is flowing freely. I go. Some muppet put a bus stop just after the junction. A bus stops in the left hand lane. All the cars behind it move into my lane. I end up slightly in the hatched area, not actually blocking anyone, and fined. It was a few years back and I'm still pissed off.

YouPutTheScrewInTheTuna · 05/07/2022 05:46

Intrigued to know which YBJ... outside the fire station or south Wimbledon - there are so many in Merton! Also you only get flashed if you come to a full stop so if you slow to the slowest speed possible and creep along you won't get the fine! Appreciate not always possible when this kind of situation occurs.

Oblomov22 · 05/07/2022 05:47

I agree. This is just money grabbing of the council. We all know the rules, but it doesn't work in many situations as hatchyu explains in London it just becomes congested. If you say abc waited, cars would be beeping you from behind in frustration. I can't accept that the appeal wasn't justified, if another drivers cutting in caused the incident.

SavoirFlair · 05/07/2022 06:29

What you're saying is cars are expected to slam their breaks on in free flowing traffic to wait for the car/s ahead to clear the junction/yellow box before proceeding? I don't think so. Who does that? Could cause an accident.

Your post doesn’t make sense. It can’t be “free flowing traffic” if you’re also waiting for cars ahead to clear

I think you are saying that if the light is green, and everyone behind you and yourself are able to drive forwards across the box, in a free flow of movement, then the folk behind you would be annoyed if you stopped just to ensure the exit ahead of you was clear….

…. however that is the entire point of the box junction, which is perhaps why you were fined in the end

RedHelenB · 05/07/2022 07:16

Stickystitch · 04/07/2022 23:01

I knew MNers would be waving their rule books at me lol. In this case, it was about 8pm, there was no congestion at all, a clear road ahead.

What you're saying is cars are expected to slam their breaks on in free flowing traffic to wait for the car/s ahead to clear the junction/yellow box before proceeding? I don't think so. Who does that? Could cause an accident.

Tbf you just said you were going slowly so slamming brakes on wouldn't cause an accident. Kess reason to stop in the box too if there was no congestion.

WeAreTheHeroes · 05/07/2022 07:18

RumJerrySailorRum · 04/07/2022 22:30

Annoying because, let's be right, we all do it. (Like speeding)

BUT we all know we shouldn't so if we get caught, tough shit, you take the consequences.

We don't. You might, I don't!

LakieLady · 05/07/2022 07:21

Autienotnaughtie · 04/07/2022 22:36

Genuinely never heard of a yellow box junction are they everywhere or just big cities?

I live in a small town and we have one.

Most people ignore it, and I have been beeped at for waiting at a green traffic light till it's clear before going across.

newbiename · 05/07/2022 07:22

Autienotnaughtie · 04/07/2022 22:36

Genuinely never heard of a yellow box junction are they everywhere or just big cities?

Do you drive ? Confused

WonderingWanda · 05/07/2022 07:32

That's annoying op but one of those things you probably won't do again.

I do now feel totally vindicated for not entering the box junction last week when a very angry man held his hand the horn because he was behind me and wanted to turn left.

girlmom21 · 05/07/2022 07:33

Your two versions of events don't really add up. Either there was plenty of room and time and you could have preempted the issue - lorries don't just stop even when they're broken - or you were going faster/driving closer than you've described and to stop would be unsafe.

captncrunch · 05/07/2022 07:40

You are being unreasonable I'm afraid as others have explained. But I really think a lot of people don't understand these junctions so you aren't alone.

There's one I go through every day I absolutely hate. Traffic lights followed by yellow box turning right into two lanes then more traffic lights. If my lights are on green to travel into the box and turn right, I often can't move because the cars at the next set of lights haven't moved / left space to exit the box. The number of days I sit there with lights on green and cars loudly sounding their horns behind me and gesticulating because they want me to pull forward into the yellow box so they can go round me!

So actually I think this might be a helpful thread for a lot of people!