To think yellow box fines are f***ed up

[Stickystitch]

I have to pay Merton council £65 for stopping in a yellow box for 4 seconds because a lorry ahead of me broke suddenly - a car ahead of them randomly stopped dead in flowing traffic, waited, then took a sharp (and illegal) u-turn at the junction. I assume this car and the lorry also got fined. I was doing max 20mph (local speed limit) and there was plenty of room between me and the lorry when the traffic was moving.

The council has rejected my appeal and said I should have waited for all traffic ahead of me to exit the yellow box before entering it. The yellow box in this case is HUGE, maybe 5 car lengths. Who stops dead at a traffic junction, in full flowing traffic, to wait for all the cars ahead to cross? I have never been fined for anything in my life, never even had a parking ticket and I'm absolutely furious. Fining people £65 for shit like this needs to stop. That's more than my weekly budget gone.. and for what?

I'm not sure I've ever known anyone successfully appeal stuff like that.
I've heard of an instance where someone temporarily moved into a bus lane to let an ambulance through. (Appeal not successful)
DH friend is a surgeon and was called to an emergency. He briefly used a bus lane and was fined. He appealed but was not successful.

Weirdly I was in traffic yesterday that crosses 3 box junctions -one is for a fire station exit. Usually there's the usual "what me ?" dimness from drivers as they sit blocking it. But yesterday there was a police car in the traffic and mysteriously everyone suddenly seemed to know how box junctions work. You could have used this one as a training video.

DH friend is a surgeon and was called to an emergency. He briefly used a bus lane and was fined. He appealed but was not successful.

That's because the Highway Code makes it crystal clear that moving out of the way for an emergency vehicle must be done without breaking any road traffic regulations. And anyone with any sense would understand why that is.

Maybe I've misunderstood your description, but you can go into the box to wait to turn right.

Suck it up. I get annoyed that people cause delays because they stop in the yellow box blocking traffic from other directions. Just don't enter until clear it's really simple! Similar with crossings and cars just lamely follow one in front at a crawl and then end up blocking the crossing when others in front stop due to volume of traffic.

Tough, pay the fine and don't do it again

I wish we had yellow box cameras in my part of the world. A few times a year my colleagues and I get stuck in the work car park for 20-40 minutes because of heavy traffic just after the roundabout to my work. The traffic backs up to the roundabout because almost no-one respects the yellow box on the main road. Very frustrating.

We were driving through London and got stuck behind a broken down car. The police were waving everyone through to a bus lane to clear the traffic. Got a fine for that and didn't get cleared on appeal. The council must have been quids in that day as there were loads of cars being directed to do the same as us.

Good grief, where do you live that you have never come across one of these? I learned to drive in 1978, and the rule was in the Highway Code even back then.

OP: AIBU?
MN-ers: Yes
OP: No, I'm not.

Doesn’t sound to me like you did anything wrong. From your description the road beyond the box junction was clear for some car lengths, so plenty of room for you and the car and lorry infront of you. In those circumstances nobody would wait for those two vehicles to clear before entering. In fact if people did that it would cause more congestion. I always thought the rule about making sure you can exit the box before entering is to do with those times traffic is crawling along and there isn’t space the other side of the box. Can you appeal again? My mum fought and fought a yellow line ticket once (it had been tarmaced over) and eventually won but initially they said she had to pay.

This is why we need re-testing to be introduced. Drivers do not keep up to date with the Highway Code and you end up with a lot of ignorant and dangerous drivers who have a “I’ve been driving longer than you were born laddie, I know what I’m doing” attitude when you can clearly see you don’t have a clue.

Your accounts don’t tally, you were in the wrong. Perhaps use this as a learning experience to improve your driving OP.

"OP: AIBU?
MN-ers: Yes
OP: No, I'm not."

😂😂pretty much

We were driving through London and got stuck behind a broken down car. The police were waving everyone through to a bus lane to clear the traffic. Got a fine for that and didn't get cleared on appeal.

In which case you needed to take it to court - there is a statutory defence of being instructed by a policeman in uniform.

If you stopped and waited in London for the box to become clear you'd have very angry cars behind you 😂 There's no way this is realistic there, no one would get anywhere!

Looks to me like the rules were tightened up only a few months ago.
imho OP is not BU but also she won't win on appeal.

Where I did my driving test there is one that goes around the corner, so you can't see if it's clear - you just have to take a chance. Fortunately there's no camera, but I ended up stuck in it on my driving test! I still passed. I said to the examiner, "oh no I am stuck here" and he just said "well you couldn't see". I suppose it was acknowledged that the position meant you couldn't avoid being in it.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the OP, you wouldn't expect someone to slam their their brakes on and strand you in the box, but councils need the money, so they will apply the rules to the letter.

I actually wish there were a few more yellow boxes, as the most annoying thing ever is when people block side roads you need to turn in or out of - eg if there are roadworks and they are queuing.

I can think of several in local city that are chronically blocked, not enforced.

@ErrolTheDragon possibly - so for this yellow box there is no option for straight on, you can only turn right into two lanes - one lane then goes right again and one left. So in this case I don't believe you could wait in it to turn right because if you could there wouldn't be a box junction there?

Who stops dead at a traffic junction, in full flowing traffic, to wait for all the cars ahead to cross?
I do - there's one near me that's a nightmare. I usually get some impatient tosser leaning on their horn because I am following the actual law.

What you're saying is cars are expected to slam their breaks on in free flowing traffic to wait for the car/s ahead to clear the junction/yellow box before proceeding? I don't think so. Who does that? Could cause an accident.

No you are expected to read the road ahead and on approach to a junction that is not clear you would slow and anticipate a stop, or continue if the box became clear.

A few refresher lessons would probably benefit you OP because the idea you would need to slam your brakes on rather then simply pay attention to what is going on ahead is really quite dangerous.

Living in London you get used to forward planning and not entering a box junction if you are not 100% sure you can clear it (ie you can see space for your car on the other side of it, unless of course you are turning right and blocked by oncoming traffic).

If you pay attention and slow in approach there is no need to slam on the brakes, you come to gentle stop if the way is not clear.

Box junction cameras are so rife here, and always enforced, that if you entered presuming traffic wouldn't stop your fines would cost more than the mortgage each month.

It's a lesson to learn and I am sure you will be more aware next time. At least it happened just the once and now you know.

I go through a junction like this every day, the HC rule 174 Errol refers to wouldn't apply in this case, as the exit (which you are turning right into) is NOT clear.

Living in London you get used to forward planning and not entering a box junction if you are not 100% sure you can clear it (ie you can see space for your car on the other side of it, unless of course you are turning right and blocked by oncoming traffic).

but the OP could see space for her car on the other side of it. So she’d done exactly as you’d said. 🤷‍♀️ She just didn’t predict the car infront would stop (when it didn’t need to) to do a U turn.

My hack for unexpected obstructions in box junctions is to leave plenty of room and keep moving incredibly slowly.

But then I barely ever need to use it, and the room-leaving usually means just following the rules anyway!

...But, only if the right turn exit is clear and it's oncoming traffic that's preventing you from making the turn / exit.

No she could see a space occupied by vehicles that she expected would be clear by the time she got there - that's not what the rule says.

It's really simple - you don't enter the box unless you have a clear exit.

In this case OP entered the box even though her exit was blocked. She did that because it was blocked by a moving lorry that she didn't expect to stop - but it did due the car in front.