To think yellow box fines are f***ed up

[Stickystitch]

I have to pay Merton council £65 for stopping in a yellow box for 4 seconds because a lorry ahead of me broke suddenly - a car ahead of them randomly stopped dead in flowing traffic, waited, then took a sharp (and illegal) u-turn at the junction. I assume this car and the lorry also got fined. I was doing max 20mph (local speed limit) and there was plenty of room between me and the lorry when the traffic was moving.

The council has rejected my appeal and said I should have waited for all traffic ahead of me to exit the yellow box before entering it. The yellow box in this case is HUGE, maybe 5 car lengths. Who stops dead at a traffic junction, in full flowing traffic, to wait for all the cars ahead to cross? I have never been fined for anything in my life, never even had a parking ticket and I'm absolutely furious. Fining people £65 for shit like this needs to stop. That's more than my weekly budget gone.. and for what?

I agree it's harsh, OP. You were proceeding with the flowing traffic and believed the exit would be clear as you entered. The only thing I would suggest is to proceed really slowly around box junctions and hesitate until there is a car's width on the other side.

I got caught speeding right in front of the national speed limit sign, you could see it on the image! I just started to put my foot down ever so slightly too early. It's a fair cop, I went along and did the speed awareness course. Annoying though.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I interpret the exit being clear as the road at the other side being clear. It doesn’t say the box must be clear. Guess I’d have got fined too. 😁

Everywhere.

Well perhaps not on some of the smaller remote islands.

I get you OP. If everyone waited until the next car had completely got across then they'd be massive tailbacks in London. If it would be reasonable to expect that your car could get across, for instance one car in front of you and a clear space past the box in front of them, then they should allow the appeal. The car that's blocked the exit due to their illegal manoeuvre should be fined but not those affected by it. You can't have someone just stop in the road past the box and then fine all the other cars affected. But I think these boxes have become money making schemes in London for struggling councils.

The council are correct but I agree we’ve all done it… you should wait until it’s clear but especially rush hour etc I don’t see anyone doing that

"The council has rejected my appeal and said I should have waited for all traffic ahead of me to exit the yellow box before entering it. The yellow box in this case is HUGE, maybe 5 car lengths. Who stops dead at a traffic junction, in full flowing traffic, to wait for all the cars ahead to cross?"

Yes that is the law
The law applies to everyone

Break the law by all means but do not whinge of you get caught

It's annoying, but fair. As the standard of driving gets worse and worse, you have to drive with the full expectation that someone somewhere will do something stupid to mess it up for everyone else. If you see a yellow box junction and can't clear it, don't go.

I sympathise OP. There is a box junction near me that has lights and I have to turn right into. As soon as you are in it, the lights green and you can go. Locals know this but non-locals don't so sometimes you are at the junction forever and the locals just have to go around the non-local sitting there for ages. The idea of a box junction is good but they don't always make sense.

By see a space I mean you can actually see road on the opposite side of the junction, not space in front of other cars, as people can and will stop suddenly.

I’ve been fined for this before (in London) as the exit was clear when I entered it but because of the road layout traffic joined past the exit after I’d entered (so the exit was no longer clear), and then there was a traffic light change leaving me stranded in the junction.

Appeal was denied, but I’m really not sure what else I could have done!

I really think some of these junctions are just a money-maker.

That's nonsense - cars ahead could be forced to stop unexpectedly for perfectly legitimate reasons. If every box junction always has a "yes but" excuse there's no point in them.

Learn the art of leaving enough space to continue to move even if something ahead is unexpected, the boxes are mainly in surburban areas with heavy traffic and that is why - blocked junctions when lights change are a major cause of traffic stagnation, but then again so are the idiots entering roundabouts when exit not clear and nothing is done about them.

The problem with a lot of comments on this thread is that it's based on the modern UK way of driving, which is let's predict what the other road user is likely to do.

Hence bizarre comments like this:

but the OP could see space for her car on the other side of it. So she’d done exactly as you’d said. 🤷‍♀️ She just didn’t predict the car infront would stop (when it didn’t need to) to do a U turn.

The problem with driving is, it isn't a matter of conjecture or debate, or prediction. Yes you can see a signal (sometimes), yes you can see a bit of movement, but unless you actually have that clear space, then it doesn't exist until it exists.

Unfortunately you will have drivers on here and in real life who will absolutely insist that 'it doesn't work like this in the real world'

And that driving is like a form of Speed with Keanu Reeves - you just have to keep going at all costs in case some angry man behind you beeps you, and then lament whatever 'suddenly changes' in front of you because someone failed to act predictably

Just keep moving next time and try to get alongside the vehicle in front. It's just to make you find a way out, if we didn't have fines people would dawdle. With fines people make it their priority to get out of the way. As soon as you see the car being a dick you should be looking for another way out of the junction.

I have some sympathy with the OP. My neighbourhood has a yellow box function that is notorious locally for making money, I think someone did an FOI request. Due to the road layout, lights timings and other traffic lights very close it is extremely easy to get caught out inadvertently.

I'm so sorry, OP. That's crazy. So you are supposed to remain five car lengths behind the car in front even if traffic is flowing well? I've never seen anyone do that. In slow traffic, absolutely. (Though it's infuriating that you can get completely stuck in heavy traffic when everyone else is ignoring this rule and blocking you from getting through the box whenever you have a green light, so you never move unless you too break the law.)

Thanks for alerting me to the fact that there are cameras monitoring this. I haven't known anyone to get a ticket for it. I don't think there are cameras where I live, but maybe there should be as it would prevent the problem I described in brackets above! Are you in London?

There’s plenty of yellow boxes at busy traffic lights where if you didn’t enter the box when the lights were on green regardless of whether the box is empty or not, you would never get across - the lights would change back to red before the box was clear every single time and you’d be sitting there forever.

>>I have never seen anyone in real life in free flowing traffic have every car stop before the box and waits for it to become clear before proceeding when you can clearly see there is no obstruction. You usually enter if you can see that the box will clear.<<

Having been caught thinking that the road would clear, I now never enter a yellow box unless there is clear road the other side. Never mind how many people are hooting at me I won't move unless there is visible space for me to clear the junction. There have been many complaints about the box I was caught in but more and more people are now waiting at the same box for the road to clear, as you are supposed to do.

DH got caught in Cardiff a few years back. There was space when he moved forward, but a car in the other lane suddenly swerved across blocking both lanes and leaving DH stuck in the box. We were sent the video recording so we could see it and fume. We just had to pay.

I think theory retesting could be useful. I was able to just swap my overseas licence despite not all the road rules or signs being the same. No marked box junctions where I learnt to drive, every junction is treated as a box junction, so I wouldn't be caught out on this occasion.

Sorry the rules are very clear do not enter unless exit is clear for this very reason. Merton council have cameras and have done for some time on the majority of their box junctions, there is no way of cheating the rules.

I have never seen anyone in real life in free flowing traffic have every car stop before the box and waits for it to become clear before proceeding when you can clearly see there is no obstruction. You usually enter if you can see that the box will clear.

But this is my earlier point exactly. "You usually", if it "will" clear....

There are way too many conditionals in this sentence when you consider a £XX fine is awaiting if the box doesn't clear as expected.

Yes I had to wait for 3 sets of lights until I could cross today this was Merton actually.

This post actually made me a lot lore cautious this morning!