Why won't he marry me?!

[PinkPanther87]

I've been with DP around 12 years and we have two DC, aged 5 and 3. Aside from the standard bickering and occasional bad moods we have a brilliant relationship. He is supportive and a real partner in every way. We share all household chores, life admin, childcare etc. And have completely joint and transparent finances (just 1 account which everything goes into and we are free to use on what we want, bar larger purchases which we chat through) - this was also the case while I was on mat leave and for the period when DC were younger and I worked part time. We have wills leaving everything to each other and are named as beneficiaries on each others pension and death in service. We also own our home jointly.

We have always talked about marriage as something we would do in the future but decided to have children first, which I was happy to do. I've now got to the point where I want us to be married. I brought this up with DP who told me he doesn't actually see himself ever getting married. He loves me, is committed to me but something about being married is stopping him and he doesn't think he can get past it. He thought he would feel differently after children but he doesn't. He hasn't given any real reason for this, just his gut is saying it isn't for him.

I don't know how to get past this to be honest. I feel as though he has led me on for a decade whilst getting everything he wants out of a relationship and has put me in a position of now having children with someone who won't provide me the security of marriage. I'm struggling to fully explain to him why I want to be married, when day to day nothing much would change, but I know its important to me and I have always been clear on that.

Has anyone been in this situation? How did anyone get over this?

How does your pension sit?

Are you earning as much or more than DP? Do you have a nice pension pot put away?

He’s got you over a barrel really, hasn’t he? You can’t force him to marry you and do you break up an otherwise happy (for now) relationship over this?

For me the resentment of knowing he lied in order to have 2 children, when he didn’t want to marry you and knew he probably never would want to marry you, would eventually eat away at me.

What a pig.

He hasn't given any real reason for this, just his gut is saying it isn't for him.

At this point it isnt for him. It is for you and your kids-- legal protection for them and you.

Marriage gives you legal rights so unless there’s a will in place you’re both vulnerable if anything happened to either of you. I believe as your children are minors your parents will be your next of kin. Do you want your parents to be the one who makes decisions should either of you become incapacitated? I don’t want to sound heartless or mercenary but why do you think so many people when they receive a terminal diagnosis get married?

This.

He's leaving his options open in case someone better comes along in five years time. Sorry

Plus inheritance tax. A large part of the reason DP and I are tying the knot. We have wills etc, but we need marriage for complete protection of the other in the event of death.

told me he doesn't actually see himself ever getting married. He loves me, is committed to me but something about being married is stopping him and he doesn't think he can get past it. He thought he would feel differently after children but he doesn't.

In what way is this "deception" ?

Don't you think he could say the same about you turning around and suddenly saying this is a dealbreaker after 12 years and 2 children and building a happy life together?

Why is it suddenly bothering you?

As to "why can't he do this for me" - well largely the same reason that the partner who doesn't want a child "overrules" the one who does.

We're not talking about duvet covers but a legal contract.

He hasn't deceived you, you're choosing to frame it that way.

He's choosing to be with you every day. If you think of it like that it's kinda romantic.

I believe as your children are minors your parents will be your next of kin. Do you want your parents to be the one who makes decisions should either of you become incapacitated?

"Next of kin" is not a legal concept in this country, that's nonsense.

I don’t want to sound heartless or mercenary but why do you think so many people when they receive a terminal diagnosis get married?

Love and inheritance tax.

I'm not jumping the gun. 12 years! Christ.

Why can't he do this one thing that matters to me.

Because you don't get married just to please somebody else and an ultimatum is just a form of coercion.

Would he go for a Civil partnership, OP?

I'm sure you don't necessarily want one, but his agreement to this in principle would at least indicate he was genuinely happy to be legally financially tied to you.

Is that a line you use to your partner when the subject of marriage comes up ?
It isn't remotely romantic. It just means the person you are with will do for now. But not forever.

I can't figure out why he doesn't want to get married. Can he explain this to you OP?

He is effectively in a marriage - that you both earn similar high salaries means if you divorced after marriage it is unlikely he would be much worse off. So why won't he do what you want? Is he waiting for something better to come along? If you didn't care either, then I'd say you are in a position where being married won't make much difference but you do care. Why is he sticking on something that really won't make any difference to his day to day life or long term life or anything but is something you care about.

This would really bother me.

Marriage is a social construct tbh… a legal declaration of commitment.

so He’s not marrying you because he doesn’t want to do that imo. And What he wants trumps what you want… because he has everything he wants right now. He hasn’t been burnt previously. Boils down to he doesn’t love you enough, because if he did he might say he doesn’t want a big wedding but will get married because he understands it means something to you, and won’t change anything.

If it is marriage you want, id have one last conversation about what it means to you. No point in an ultimatum as you don’t want him to marry you unless he wants to. If he really doesn’t want to, he’s lied to you (he could have said unsure/might not change up front and you would have had options) . Then you can make a choice to stay or leave. For me, not sure I could trust anything he would say in future but I’m quite black n white.

There is so little difference between a wedding and a civil partnership. I understand some people object to traditional marriages with vows on principle but you still have to sign a document with a registrar and a civil "divorce" is simply the same but named "dissolution". I just don't think they're enough to convince someone who doesn't want to marry.

well yes. but then the person you are with might ask themselves why they would want to be with someone who refuses to do this one thing.

And an ultimatum isn't coercion. It is saying "this is the way I want my life to be - you can chose in or out" nothing coercive about that instead it is a woman saying what she wants matters as much as what the man wants.

Civil partnership. My marriage avoiding DP was happy to do this - we get all the same benefits as marriage but less fuss. I would have loved the fuss but I'll take the security and commitment.

I have an acquaintance in the same position. We aren't close we just know eachother through family. Anyway her DP has told her countless times he doesn't want to get married. Yet she makes excuses for him like 'It's probably because he can't afford a wedding'
He's really controlling and a shit bf tbh and it's obvious she's holding out hope. He broughf it up to me and said the reason why is because it would be a liability. I know for a fact he's cheated as well. It's just not something I'm comfortablre getting involved in. It's too close to home and he's a massive liar so I'd probably get called a liar if I told her because there's no way he would admitt to it. I've missed a few bits out because I don't want to out myself.
I'm not saying it would be a liability for all men but I can imagine the vast majority think like that.

As a PP said, the bit about NOK and medical decisions is not true in the UK. So you should sort out health and finance LPAs anyway, regardless of marriage.

Sounds like you're not poor, that's good. If you are married or have a civil partnership you can transfer assets between each other freely, which can be very handy if you want to make best use of things like CGT allowances.

So you don't have to be dead and facing IHT to benefit from being married, tax-wise. And IHT is due on property the deceased owned regardless of whether it's held as joint tenants or tenants in common.
www.sinclairday.co.uk/iht-tenants-in-common-or-joint-tenants/#:~:text=A%20surviving%20joint%20tenant%20automatically,for%20'tenants%20in%20common'.

Either way, hopefully your will leaves some money directly to the DC (it would have to be in trust as they are young - but it means if your DP marries and forgets to make a new will, they are not left with nothing).

I am sorry your DP is taking this attitude. I lived happily with my DP for many, many years (no DC) and we never worried about being married, but when we sorted out our wills and LPAs I suggested we get married for tax and pension inheritance - he had no problem with it, no quibbling from him!

@PinkPanther87
it wasn't that big a deal to either of us.
So really it's not just him changing his mind you have too, suddenly putting more importance on it.
Tbh, I think that if you are a oth of approx same value financially, I don't get the whole security issue, compared to say a partner on a 6 figure and other partner on nmw and part-time, so a huge discrepancy.
You may find if you ponder this too much, you tear the relationship apart.

That would be true if the OP were a low earner or SAHM. But she's the higher earner.

I ended up going to relate in a similar situation, they were very helpful in helping us actually talk and iron out the issues. Marriage, practically, is a very good idea as there are legal protections for each other, for example inheritance. It might be the wedding, in which case could you have a small wedding or elope?

A PP said even a small wedding costs 7k. We managed to provide for daytime and evening including all drinks for 100 for that price, but it involved hiring a local village hall, having more relaxed catering (e.g. waitrose catering) and doing a lot ourselves and with friends and family help. Our only flowers were gathered from hedgerows and we had herbs on the tables. What I mean is it doesn't have to cost a lot if you don't want.

I said I believe, not that it was law/fact. But I did find this on an nhs website:
hospitals have generally used spouses and close blood relatives to define next of kin. As attitudes have changed and families have become more diverse, most hospitals are more flexible when they define next of kin. The policy in most NHS trusts is to ask you to nominate who is next of kin formally, on your admission to hospital. However, if you are unable to say because, for example, you are unconscious, we will try to work out who is the person closest to you. We may define next of kin wrong in this case, particularly if your personal circumstances are confusing or "unusual" – for example, if a hospital patient considers a best friend to be his or her next of kin, rather than a parent.

regarding inheritance I found this on citizens advice:
The following people have no right to inherit where someone dies without leaving a will:
unmarried partners (sometimes wrongly called 'common-law' partners)

Love and inheritance (tax), exactly. Without a will or marriage certificate it’s a lot more complicated.

What of those things is not true? They both earn six figures with only a 10k difference. So he is indeed getting all those things.