Talk me down - is this country really so bad?

[BluePassportsAreBollocks]

I’m a long time MN user, NC for this.

Anyway, I’m really down about what our country has become. I’m Scottish but live in England, so much of what I’m saying relates to England but Scotland is just as bad if not worse whenever I go back (before anyone comes along and tells me that it’s all rainbows and unicorns elsewhere!).

The quality of our public services is pitiful. You can’t get a doctors appt, mental health support non existent, hospital backlogs, social care on its knees, schools underperforming, staff in every public sector unhappy and considering going on strike, huge wealth inequalities, huge health inequalities, outrageous profiteering by private companies exploiting the rise in inflation for their own gain (energy, fuel, food, travel), companies cutting their customer service to a shoestring level where it takes 45 mins for someone to pick the phone up only to tell you to use the online contact form, customer service in general appalling and delivered by people who just don’t care, continued and endless political divisions forced upon us and tearing people apart (divide and rule… brexit, boris, scexit, covid), no reply for days and weeks for administrative services like passports, overcrowded public transport, completely unattainable house prices, exorbitant cost of childcare, everything about parenting is a completion, I could go on and on.

I am genuinely thinking of looking for work abroad. But before I do, can someone please tell me…

1. Are things really as bad as they feel here compared to other peer countries (if so which)? Is it that we are living in a bubble and I’m not grateful enough for the things that work? Yes I appreciate the rights and human rights we have, but even they are being trashed as we speak.

2. If I could move anywhere in the world where stuff just worked, where would I’d be and why??

Yes that’s why I referenced the demographic timebomb in an earlier post upthread. I’m not saying it’s affordable now and in fact the poor pensioners of today will be relatively wealthy compared to the ones coming up below.

My mother is an immigrant to Australia. She was retired when she arrived. Her ‘basic’ state pension is about double what she would get here if she were British. Australia has a much better, ring-fenced system for those with money but is also generous for those without (like my DM).

Another example is North Sea oil and gas.
the Norwegians set up a sovereign wealth fund with the proceeds and their pensioners are living a wonderful life,
even as we move away from fossil fuels. The money has been invested and continues to grow.

We prefer to spend instantly and firefight with no long term planning. We change course every five minutes. We rip up our education system every few years and by the time the system has caught up, it’s time for a new ‘trend’.

I agree if there is a better way to do something, we should pivot. But we have always lacked the long term focus. We can’t even be pinned down to a proper constitution.

We are just really poorly organised for a nation that has such a rich history and supposedly the best (elite) schools and universities in the world…

@Ffsbrainscrambled

Also I'm very sorry to hear about your husband.
I think that you should be able to pay £25 to the likes of Livi and get a GP referral from them.

Did you ask your health insuret if you could do that?

great idea thank you @ILoveAllRainbowsx x

what part of the UK are you and your Ukrainian guest living in? Why is she disillusioned?

@Ffsbrainscrambled yes no long term thinking

@Ffsbrainscrambled

Yes I totally agree with that. We should have done things a lot better decades ago. We could have done what Norway did with our North sea oil and gas but we didn't.

Unfortunately it is young that are paying for that now.

Canada has a scheme that all employees have to pay into so but they get a decent income if they are ever unable to work due to redundancy or sickness.

We just rely on benefits which will never pay people's mortgages or give them the money they need just to pay their bills.

Most people don't realise that if they become long-term sick they will probably lose their house until until it happens to them.

It would be so cost t effective to have a national system rather than everyone having to take out their own personal critical illness policies etc.

There are so many things that we should have done better in the past

We have our problems in this country, but I don't always think the grass is greener. Quite often you swap one set of issues for a different one... Australia has climate issues, Middle East has governmental problems and so on...

Just one example, my daughter has a long term health condition, for which she needs regular, expensive medication to keep her healthy. Whilst our NHS doesn't have the bells and whistles of other systems, I am on an international Facebook group for parents with my child's condition. In the US, parents are regularly denied the expensive treatment the doctor prescribes. They have to fight the insurance company just to get the treatment they need.

Because my daughter's condition is not considered to be a profitable area of medicine, doctors are few and far between. There are actually longer wait times to see a doctor in the US than there is in the UK. And I see parents having to fly extremely long distances to be able to see a specialist.

Because it's a privatised system, people book the services individually and so there's no joined up thinking. For example, when my daughter was diagnosed, she has a team of professionals around her. Her physiotherapists and doctors work together to give the best healthcare. In the US, they're separate so parents often complain about contradictory advice between the different health professionals.

Finally, to add salt to the wound, some women in the US are now being denied the treatment they have used for years to keep them healthy, because the treatment can be used to administer an abortion. It's insane.

So yeah, our NHS has its issues, but for my daughter's condition, from what I can see in the US, parents are paying a shit ton of money for a much worse service.

As I say, the grass isn't always greener.

The country has been going to the dogs for as long as I can remember and I'm in my 70s! We look back on better times but you can bet everyone was moaning then as well.

All political parties use the NHS as a political football instead of getting together and sorting it out on a cross party basis. Ditto education. People have been arguing about GB in the EU since the 60s and remember then the Labour Party was dead against it. Ever since we joined half the Tories have wanted to leave thus weakening their governments.

Our system is short termist so not much useful actually gets done. Remember Richard Branson wanting to build an oil refinery a few years ago? So we could be more self sufficient. Shot down in flames.

But we get the governments we deserve. Despite the many good people in the land, increasingly we are a superficial, egotistical, unethical, disloyal and unkind society and sadly it is out of that pool that our political representatives are drawn.

Having said that it must be a lot worse elsewhere otherwise why do so many people risk life and limb to migrate here.

The next general election is no later than January 2025.

That is 19 months away.

In my life I have lived abroad for ten years odd. I was in German when the wall came down and feel there is much more awareness in Europe as to how politics affects people's daily lives. It does. Everything from your water/gas/electric bill to your school and NHS of course.

Right now like other posters I try to be grateful for the things that work i.e free schools as someone said, colleges, universities(not free obviously)...

The bin people collecting the bins. My housing association. The buses, trains and taxis that still run. The corner shop. The postman/woman.

The efficiency of services probably varies greatly across the country. We are South West. Yes, we still do have a benefits safety net although yes many are working and still not managing and going to food banks. As hard as lock downs were (and I had next to no support as a single parent, not even a support bubble) the vaccination alert texts came through promptly and I attended. A very difficult tooth abcess was dealt with at the hospital recently too.

Yes, it takes much longer to get hold of people on the phone (everything from banks to the recycling centre) but - doing so much online means you can generally choose your times and fit them in between other things which can be an advantage.

I mention politics because a couple of things about the statements people make about the state of this country make me cross.

1. People moaning who can't even be bothered to turn up at the ballot box, either local or national elections. It makes me cross because quite literally women died for your right to vote - and it is the least you can do to turn up and take part.
2. People not being honest about who they voted for. How many on here voted the Eton boys in and didn't consider the wider picture and in particular how it might affect people less fortunate than themselves and their kids (and your kids for that matter).
3. The people who voted Boris in got greedy and didn't consider the needs of others or the fact that their carefully crafted, luxurious lives might one day crumble with changing economic circumstances or the impact of climate change.
4. People moaning about the alternative to Boris which is Starmer - without considering how much worse things could get if the Tories win in the next election. I'm not saying that Starmer is perfect, he ISN'T - but it is the policies that matter and that need to be understood. A policy is an intention and a goal and for that to be truly democractic, people need to shape it and join in with politics in any way they can. And by politics I mean every single way you might be able to influence public opinion.

From writing to your M.P to strikes to XR to becoming a governor of your local school, becoming a councillor, whatever it is!

It is a set of global crises we are dealing with - not a crisis of a single country.
Therefore it doesn't make sense to move as you will be dealing with the same simply in a different place.

The U.N. issued statements today along the lines of

www.newscon.net/perfect-storm-of-crises-is-widening-global-inequality-says-un-chief/?hl=en-gb#:~:text=%E2%80%98Perfect%20storm%E2%80%99%20of%20crises%20is%20widening%20global%20inequality%2C,and%20south%2C%20the%20UN%20secretary%20general%20has%20warned.

What they are basically saying is greed, conflict and bullying (I refer to the toxic masculinity of the Eton Boys) is NOT going to help or get us through this.

19 months latest until the next general election. Latest.

Time to change something and get active in whatever way you can.

And before anyone accuses me of being a troll, currently I'm not even a member of the Labour Party. But if I were I wouldn't be apologising for it.

Our kids live in this country currently and so we need to shape it in a way that makes it better.

Power is never given away. It is always TAKEN.

My maths is askew not nineteen months, but maybe I am predicting something.

I HOPE it is nineteen months away.

I agree with Op and some other posters - the race to the bottom mentality so many seem to have in the UK is holding us back. I though we abandoned feudal cap-doffing in the middle ages but it still seems popular with large numbers.

Substitute UK for US and US for UK for me. There is no way I could live in the US again and feel I am getting superb medical care from the NHS at the moment.

I'm another poster who has lived in Switzerland! I've also lived in The Netherlands. To be honest, the UK compares quite badly. Given that everyone in Britain seems to think that The Netherlands equals Amsterdam (I actually lived in the countryside in the east) and either Geneva or Zurich (I lived near both of those but also semi rural) I have to say that they both provide a better standard of living and far more value for your taxes. I had loads of friends in both countries, whom I've remained friends with over the years too.

It looks like in NL you are paying more tax, but once you take into account the fact that you can deduct your travel to work expenses from your income tax bill (even if you drive) (you can also do this to some extent in Switzerland), and the expense of council tax in the UK compared to similar taxes elsewhere, its not all that bad. And in some things you save. i.e. at the moment I live in Scotland, and you literally have to pay to park anywhere - you drive to the a forest park in the middle of nowhere - you pay for parking. It mounts up. In Switzerland, outside the big cities you can often park for free for the first hour.

The main things that make me want to move back are the NHS (its awful, patchy, beaureucratic and sexist - they failed to diagnose a fracture in my leg!), the litter everywhere, the mass new build housing estates everywhere, in Scotland the fact that there are no motorways between most of the cities and you spend a fortune trying to travel anywhere. In fact, its so difficult to travel in Scotland, I often think I'd see more of the nice parts if I lived abroad, because then I'd just fly in. Living in the central belt just isn't very nice. IMHO its one of the most unpleasant areas of Europe, if you don't include East Lothian. And the constant not knowing of what country you might be in next year.

Given that the two other countries I've lived in are Switzerland and The Netherlands, I do find the UK incredibly socialist. The personal tax allowance means that so many people don't contribute to society by even paying a little tax, the NHS is almost a socialist state on its own and inheritance tax is really quite low. I think its fairer to be taxed less on my income than money I inherited due to chance of birth than no effort on my part.

I'm buying a house in France because its cheaper than either of those two but tbh living in a flashare out of uni and then a flat is perfectly normal in most other countries and doesn't bother me, and doesn't involve the hand wringing anguish that it seems to cause here if you cannot buy a 4 bedroom new build concrete box in a development of other concrete boxes by age 26. Its also possible to have a nice house somewhere like France for weekends and holidays and drive to your place of work where you either rent or have a smaller flat. There are cheap parts of Switzerland to buy in still though if you can live rurally. Or you can buy a small ski apartment for 60k or so and live in the most wonderful mountain scenery within about an hour's commute of Geneva or CERN. I don't know which country I prefer out of it and The Netherlands, both were just fabulous and I wish I'd never left but I felt very safe and looked after in Switzerland. There are so many rules in Scotland now that Switzerland felt less controlled - my nearest loch in Scotland banned swimming for the last 2 summers, so that wasn't fun!

I'm not really sure how people can comment if they've only lived in one country all their lives. I think its been obvious for a long time that several countries in Europe have a higher standard of living than the UK but recently the gap has widened and become more obvious.

@confusde can you tell us where you live. I am from Staffordshire but live in Northamptonshire- I don't like Northamptonshire very much at all. Birmingham is my fav UK city!

I though we abandoned feudal cap-doffing in the middle ages but it still seems popular with large numbers.

This is one part of the culture I really don't get!

@Xtraincome I live in Solihull. Could never see myself leaving Solihull/Birmingham. Birmingham is my favourite city in the UK too!

@confusde that's great to know, thank you- i love Solihull, Stratford-Upon-Avon and LeamingtonSpa in the West midlands. We are looking to move- am on multiple threads on MN as house selling is rubbish for us at present and we are living in a badly run, poor county. DH works in Rugby so we looked there and it's well-connected and people we know there are happy with services they are receiving- medical, veterinary etc.

I lived in the Netherlands and I have never been quite so bored in my entire life. There is so very little to do. It’s landscapes are flat and featureless and I found the insistence that no one can do too well, it’s frowned upon, stifling.
It does not in any way compare to the U.K. in terms of opportunity, culturally or living standards which were very basic outside of the cities.

Massively.
It is absolutely allowing things go to shit.
"Oh well. Someone has it worse so stop moaning" is actually dangerous.

I am an immigrant and UK has gone worse and worse in last decade. Many people around me are considering moving on elsewhere. It's sad, because it has so much potential. It's also the feeling, the atmosphere, the way people now talk kind of resigned or angry. The overall mood

If you do horse riding, you will fit in perfectly well anywhere in northern or central europe and have lots to do. Ditto if you do a sport, ranging from cycling to running, softball or handball, skating, or even if you simply join a group which likes to visit different cities and walk around together looking at the architecture. I still get invited to talks by my university on everything from geography to history by visiting speakers, they are free of charge and include a dinner for minimal cost where you can meet loads of new people and socialise afterwards. You just don't get that here in Scotland. People would rather sit in their houses.

University education costs around 2000 euros per year and is of a higher quality than in the UK because the universities are more restricted in numbers. More technical tertiary education is available for those less academic. There are loads of job opportunities.

"Basic living standards"? Dutch houses are often very high tech, compared to British, but what you don't get is the ridiculously over the top licensing standards that you have in the UK, which makes student housing expensive and doesn't allow them to make decisions such as to leave their own internal doors open. Students are expected to be a little more self sufficient than in the UK and not make stupid decisions. You can have higher quality rented housing, but you must pay more for it.

By the way, its not doing well thats frowned upon. Not by any means. Its talking about doing well, boasting, driving around in a stupidly expensive car purchased on credit. The emphasis is more on making do with things that are still good but not brand new, spending money wisely, and being a useful part of society rather than a selfish credit obsessed consumer. I fear you have probably met some wealthy Dutch people and assumed they are poorer than you, simply because they haven't boasted about how much their house cost!

I think this is the wrong sort of comparison to make

You have compared our healthcare system to what is pretty much the worst system in the developed world and said, "Well at least it's better than in the US". Why aim so low?

We should compare our healthcare system against the best in the developed world, and ask ourselves what we need to do differently to reach those standards. Same goes for every aspect of public life - we should compare to the best in class, not the worst.

Like an earlier PP said - on a global scale the UK compares well enough, but if you just compare against our peers (wealthy developed nations with stable governments and legal systems), there are many areas where we are performing utterly dismally.

Argh, I meant to quote the pp who compared the NHS to the US healthcare system.

I looked at Rugby before and it’s a nice place! Well connected, nice shops and a good place to be! Good luck with selling your house.

summertime I ride horses and cycle but there is only so much one can do. I have lots of Dutch friends that are indeed wealthy and they feel limited as to how they can enjoy life (you can’t buy a fast car without being judged for instance) as it’s so frowned upon. Many moved to London for that reason. It is a bland country with very little excitement however the lack of a class system was welcome and education levels are good. It lacked for us creativity, excitement and weekends were quite boring.

I though we abandoned feudal cap-doffing in the middle ages but it still seems popular with large numbers

Doff capping to the rich goes on all over the world.