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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why mumsnet hates Jordan Peterson?

177 replies

Gogster · 01/07/2022 22:25

Strange because he's actually keen on women's rights

OP posts:
StrayGoose · 02/07/2022 23:29

Stompythedinosaur · 01/07/2022 22:40

Because he is a massive misogynist? Beloved of incels? Supporter the view that women should be forced to marry incense to prevent them committing acts of violence?

He is absolutely odious and definitely not a supporter of women's rights.

Nah. Methinks you're quoting shit you've read about him online, and not actually seen him. I've watched him extensively after hearing he was a misogynist. He isn't. He's brilliant.

Stompythedinosaur · 03/07/2022 00:47

StrayGoose · 02/07/2022 23:29

Nah. Methinks you're quoting shit you've read about him online, and not actually seen him. I've watched him extensively after hearing he was a misogynist. He isn't. He's brilliant.

You can think that all you like, but it doesn't make it true. I've seen plenty of his awful interviews, read some of his early psychology publications.

I'm sorry that your extensive watching has missed his overt sexism and racism.

Honestly, I feel like I should be checking their aren't two Jordan Peterson's out there, I have no idea how anyone sees him as anything other than a creepy incel-apologist.

HRTQueen · 03/07/2022 00:56

A clock is right twice a day

He is no friend to women his views are not that women are equal we have a place in society and that is supportive to men

TirednExhausted · 03/07/2022 01:14

I listened to the clip of him narrating his dream about his grandma's pubes being soft in his audiobook, thanks to reddit today. That is something I will never be able to unhear 😐.

He says some absolutely whacky offensive shit and some vaguely sensible stuff.
He's gone more to the whacky side in the last couple of years, probably as its more clickbaity/gets him more headlines.
There's far more sensible people to rally behind than Peterson when it comes to women's rights or anything really.

Valeriekat · 03/07/2022 07:41

user1471504747 · 01/07/2022 22:45

You mean apart from his misogyny and racism?

So you haven't actually read anything he has written then?

Valeriekat · 03/07/2022 07:49

ddl1 · 01/07/2022 23:26

I haven't noticed him being keen on women's rights! I wouldn't say I hated him, but he exasperates me. His writings are a weird mixture of actual science (not a lot), the worst forms of oversimplified evolutionary psychology, and a lot of blah-de-blah from mythology and religion. Most of what he writes is fairly meaningless and harmless but useless (like a poor dissertation by an arrogant and rather lazy student)- but then he starts on his arguments that imply that men become violent because they don't have long-term female partners and that "If men are pushed too hard to feminize they will become more and more interested in harsh, fascist political ideology." There are plenty of people who are worse than Peterson as individuals; but what's dangerous about him is that he's been adopted as a cult figure by some incels and far-right group members.

He is a clinical psychologist. He doesn't claim to be anything else.

ddl1 · 03/07/2022 10:19

Valeriekat · 03/07/2022 07:49

He is a clinical psychologist. He doesn't claim to be anything else.

He does claim to be an authority on how people should live ('12 rules for life'), which most clinical psychologists don't.

Of course, no one's GOT to read his books; and there does seem to be a certain demand for 'gurus' which people like Peterson are meeting, not creating.

The biggest problem is not what Peterson is or claims to be. It's what other people claim him for and use him for, and the very unpleasant cult around him. There are certainly worse people around (ever come across Satoshi Kanazawa for example?) but most of them haven't been turned into cult figures in the same way.

Stompythedinosaur · 03/07/2022 11:08

Valeriekat · 03/07/2022 07:41

So you haven't actually read anything he has written then?

Have you read any of the examples of his racism and misogyny that have been posted to this thread?

HRTQueen · 03/07/2022 11:34

I think many of us watched him on Question Time

the supposedly intellectual arguments put forward have been done time and time again

user1471504747 · 03/07/2022 11:59

Valeriekat · 03/07/2022 07:41

So you haven't actually read anything he has written then?

I have, however it seems you haven’t read the thread. I suggest you catch up on the last couple of pages

Thisrevolutionwillbepaidforinblood · 03/07/2022 12:06

@user1471504747

I hate to be seen as defending someone like Peterson but none of what he says there suggest he thinks enforced monogamy is a solution.

All he does is reduce complex social issues to oversimplified sound bites. He's now altering/directing his soundbites to a specific audience type for his own financial gain (which is probably just as bad as actually holding those beliefs and is why I have no respect for him).

As you rightly suggest he doesn't ever present or discuss the nuances of the subject he is speaking about. There are a huge range of factors that play into why isolated young men are potentially dangerous/violent and why men in long term committed relationships are less likely to commit crimes (and there not necessarily related at all).

For one, men in long term relationships quite often aren't violent in the first place, and have other redeeming qualities that make them an attractive partner to their spouse in the first place. Something most incles lack from the outset.

Secondly, previously violent single men often just direct their violent tendencies towards their spouse. As we know domestic abuse is not only the most common form of male on female violence, it is also massively under reported. I would argue that monogamy does not reduce the overall instances of violent crime, rather it hides a large portion them from the public eye. It's hard to ignore a violent young many attacking women on the street but easy to ignore a violent young man attacking women in their own homes.

But none of these issues are ever presented or addressed by Peterson now. Doing so would not sit well with his new found fanbase and cost him money. After all the last thing an angry, unstable, frustrated young man wants to hear is that he, and he alone, is the issue. No, it is much more palatable (and lucrative) to say it's societies fault.

SquirrelSoShiny · 03/07/2022 12:14

I actually think the monogamy thing is really interesting. Looking at my parents' generation, lots of very troubled and wild young men settled down when they got married. I've made the observation many times that my dad went from wild fighty type to family man after marriage.

In the subsequent generations a lot of these young guys seem to just drift indefinitely with no education/ job prospects. Gradually sinking into poor mental health and online or other addictions.

I think women have always moderated men's behaviour. It's ok to acknowledge that alongside fighting against the patriarchy and making things better. The difference is that in the past more women had the benefit or status of marriage. Fewer men got away with being deadbeat dads. I'm not rose tinting this. Many women were also stuck in horrible marriages but even though the shame is gone from divorce lots of women are trapped in awful relationships by economics.

So that's where Jordan Peterson is an ass. Not recognising that wildly capitalist societies are not in any sense fair starting points.

EmpressoftheMundane · 03/07/2022 17:20

@Thisrevolutionwillbepaidforinblood
Good points. I’d be interesting to know whether the violence stops, or is simply redirected and hidden.

picklemewalnuts · 03/07/2022 17:43

The ones that turn their life around with the influence of a 'good woman' are more the ones squaring up to their peers, indulging in risky and illegal behaviour. They are overtly off the rails.

I think the men who beat up/control women and children are actually a completely different set.

That's not to say the sets can't overlap at times.

OMG12 · 03/07/2022 17:55

I love Jordon Peterson. He has some very astute views on society, he calls it like it is. He’s a very intelligent man who understands that many of the woke sound bites are actually very damaging to the groups they are trying to protect. IME it’s the #bekind brigade who don’t like him. But it’s not really surprising he’s a man capable of independent critical thought and doesn’t blindly follow set mantras. Jungian psychology obviously has its detractors too.

Velvetcupcakes · 03/07/2022 18:46

Love him. Read his books, including the much earlier Maps of Meaning.

I’m from the city where he used to teach (and actually an alumni from that university), so knew about him earlier than most. It’s been interesting to see just how often his ideas are twisted in opinion pieces to sell newspapers. I find it embarrassing, to be honest.

He is sometimes a bit too dramatic for my liking but, at least in my country, has done a lot of good in educating citizens about the dangers of compelled speech.

Boxowine · 03/07/2022 18:57

He looks like a guy who eats asparagus "if you know what I mean" 😉. Seems to do a lot of tweeting about women's bodies when he's not attractive himself.

SquirrelSoShiny · 03/07/2022 19:25

His biggest problem ironically is his followers. Every You Tube clip is called something dripping in Misogyny - 'Jordan Peterson OWNS feminist reporter!' 'JP SLAMS feminazi!' He appeals to a certain type of gross incel who chooses which content to amplify. Often there is more subtlety in his actual conversation.

ddl1 · 03/07/2022 20:33

SquirrelSoShiny · 03/07/2022 19:25

His biggest problem ironically is his followers. Every You Tube clip is called something dripping in Misogyny - 'Jordan Peterson OWNS feminist reporter!' 'JP SLAMS feminazi!' He appeals to a certain type of gross incel who chooses which content to amplify. Often there is more subtlety in his actual conversation.

Agree. Not a fan of Peterson, but his followers are far worse than he is.

SquirrelSoShiny · 04/07/2022 16:29

I've startled myself by listening to JP and really enjoying him today 👀 Nothing controversial just really practical and motivating. Of course they are all amalgamations of different talks. I suspect the incels are getting served up very different content. Bloody You Tube algorithms.

Dazz13 · 25/02/2023 23:27

SpittinKitten · 01/07/2022 22:33

The lobster guy?

Love it! "Think like crustatians!"

Yellowdays · 25/02/2023 23:30

Nasty right wing bullshitter.

Dazz13 · 25/02/2023 23:36

Yellowdays · 25/02/2023 23:30

Nasty right wing bullshitter.

A superficial insult from the postmodern neo-Marxist left-wing radical ideologue I think would be his response to that. lol.

Thelnebriati · 25/02/2023 23:40

SquirrelSoShiny
I actually think the monogamy thing is really interesting. Looking at my parents' generation, lots of very troubled and wild young men settled down when they got married.

A lot of men didn't settle down, they carried on being wild and using their wives as punching bags.

beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 23:55

I love him. His self help book helped me a lot. He really does help people.

He is monstered non-stop by the same types who monster JK Rowling. But I've watched and read a lot of his content and it's clear he's a decent person. Definitely not a misogynist, racist etc.