To wonder why mumsnet hates Jordan Peterson?

[Gogster]

Strange because he's actually keen on women's rights

I don’t hate Jordan Peterson. On balance the world is a better place because he is in it putting forth his ideas and observations.

I don’t agree with some of what he says, but I can see how a lot of young men who are confused and unmotivated might find it useful.

To each his own. I think a market place of competing ideas is a good thing.

If anyone is interested in the podcast which debunks some of his nonsense (and details some of his batshit and unpleasant beliefs), this podcast is worth a listen

the hosts are funny, and the premise of the show is rigorous checking of sources (unlike Peterson…)

Part one
open.spotify.com/episode/1Lfgjpwoo7W85JQtUiPIP8?si=DKWSAd3mQhmK9C0I76BqlQ

Part two
open.spotify.com/episode/18xwdFmce7ZcEPbV4PrKeW?si=SfVyBiWmTAuDDOZF21y-Aw

The Diary of a CEO podcast with him is very interesting. He talks up the importance of personal responsibility a lot, stop complaining and take steps to make yourself more employable / useful / etc. I would imagine that many people find these ideas helpful and motivating.
I don’t like the idea of fat-shaming but I think the point of his comment re Yumi is that society shouldn’t normalise obesity since it is bad for the individual’s health and for this reason shouldn’t be celebrated. This might be unpopular but is it wrong? <takes cover>

Never heard of him/her

I linked earlier in the thread to examples of him expressing these views, as did other posters.

@aweegc this is really interesting seeing how things get twisted in the retelling.

The Red Skull is a marvel villain created in 1941, he's always been a Nazi and Captain America's enemy. In a recent storyline the character was posting things on YouTube to rile up young men in an obvious Jordan Peterson type style, that was written by MacArthur genius grant winner Ta-Nehisi Coates. It was an attack on ideas, in no way was a character invented to imply that Jordan Peterson was ugly and to make him cry.

Not once has any of his supporters on this thread posted any evidence of his claimed support for women. (Or any other evidence that he's not a mysoginstic arsehole.)

If the critics are misconstruing and misunderstanding his theories, it is only in exactly the same way they are being misconstrued by the incel fanboys. It's telling that he seems to put rather more effort into correcting feminist interpretations than those of his supporters.

"Why do Mumsnet hate?" ... You do understand that everyone who posts here is an individual, right? Unless, of course, you think that women can't think for themselves but need to be told by someone what to think?

If you are a man: Do better !
If you are a woman: Get therapy to deal with your internalized misogyny.

Yesterday I read a long form interview in The Telegraph with Jordan where he addresses that quote, and the persons who said it.

It was an interesting read, and he clearly has been on a hell of a journey in the last decade, from his rise to prominence his health and addiction struggles and the fact that everyone has an opinion on him that he doesn't recognise.

He claims no affinity with left or right wing ideology, saying he is a classic libertarian.

From the Telegraph article I mentioned:

"Earlier this year, Peterson made a series of appearances in theatres and other venues in the US and Canada, at which he says he talked to 150,000 people. ‘All of the people who come to the tour are there because they’re trying to improve,’ he says. ‘I hardly ever talk about political topics. Every single person is there because they’ve decided they’re going to aim up. And it’s not intellectually pretentious.

‘A lot of people have attacked me for that – I’m the stupid person’s smart person. But you know, I’m not so upset about that definition. What are they? The smart person’s smart person? And I thought you weren’t elitist. Part of the role of an intellectual is to articulate what people know but can’t say. In that sense, I’m doing my job.’"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/jordan-peterson-gay-kids-convinced-transsexual-not-good-gay/

It's scary that he appears to have a few supporters on here - he hates women, believes us inferior and he's racist.

I’m the stupid person’s smart person
I think he’s misinterpreting the meaning of the phrase. Stupid here means ignorant.

Personally I would say he’s more the incel’s smart person. He gives a legitimate intellectual veneer to their women-hate. He makes them feel that they are backed up by science and evo-psych.

He is nothing original. There’s always been a backlash against feminism and femininity. It’s just he articulates it more eloquently than most.

I think hes fantastic. So intelligent, cares so much. So motivating.
He has had such a positive impact on all of my relationships and how I live each day.

I like him. He talks a lot of sense. I don't need to agree with every single point he makes to like him, same as anyone.

He's pointing out that society has destabilised- or in some ways stabilised- in a couple of generations to leave a lot of young men at a loose end.

Spare young men, who can't compete with their best peers, are problematic.
With young starting monogamy, almost everyone ends up coupled up. That isn't happening now- the very appealing have multiple relationships and the less appealing have none. Single women can survive without coupling up with a bloke.
We haven't reduced their numbers by war, for a while.

Observing this stuff isn't the same as saying 'Right, shall we frogmarch women to the altar, or have a war to sort out the excess?'

@LaSavoie "He likes to say that everyone, not just women, suffered under patriarchy and ignores the fact that whilst some men had access to certain education and professions, no women did and that’s the difference. "

Isn't the idea that Patriarchy is no good for boys either, that it limits their choices and expectations, traps them in toxic masculinity? Their options are different from women's, but also restricted. Boys were shipped off to boarding school at 7, with no heating in the dorms and poor food, corporal punishment and bullying, to toughen them up and cut their mother's apron strings.

I wonder how much of support for him on here is tied up with his anti-trans rhetoric. There seems to be a proportion of mumsnet posters who think anti-trans aligns perfectly with pro-women, not realising that most misogynists are equal opportunity bigots.

He rarely talks about the trans stuff. It's what made him come to prominence, but that was really about compelled pronouns and freedom of speech. I don't think the trans stuff is of much interest to him. Although what is the definition of anti trans anyway. It seems to me that anyone that expresses some doubt about it is hailed anti trans. The people that accuse others of being anti trans with very little evidence of this actually being true are certainly not hailed as great thinkers. I suppose this makes sense that they would hate Jordon Peterson without actually knowing about much of his work, aside from the careful snapshots out of context to accuse him of anti feminism, anti trans, racism and so on.

I think he's extremely insightful actually and have learnt a lot from his arguments. Not that I agree with them all.

In terms of how he's viewed on here, I think two things are key. Firstly evolutionary psychology is a challenging starting point for many on the left. Secondly Peterson is a lot better at understanding men than women. I wouldn't expect him to go down well on here.

Ugh! I have a relative who has been taken over by all that shit. I wouldn't go near him.

A lot of his fan base sincerely hates women, so I guess the question is whether you think that’s his fault or entirely on them.

I’ve never heard him say anything profound. He’s more of a stoic motivational speaker than an intellectual heavyweight.

I don't think a lot of what he says is even terribly controversial but I'm cynical enough to believe that he knows he provides a veneer of reason to some very unreasonable views and is happy to be cashing in on that

I think he’s a very smart man and he has a lot of useful things to say. I don’t see why I have to agree with him on everything to like and respect his brain.

I am going to see him on tour this year. Can’t wait!

To be honest he comes across as someone who likes the sound of his own voice. He likes to use convoluted ways of saying stuff a lot of people already know and have no beef with.

He’s a self styled controversial figure supposedly stirring where there is nothing to stir. It’s a persona.

This is what concerns me really. I can believe that one way to make frustrated males less antisocial is them having a female partner, but the part that always seems to go unexamined is how much of the frustration simply gets directed at the woman and children instead. I'm not familiar with Peterson's work so maybe he does look at this.