Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

[Gakatsbsk]

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

Hang in there.

And good on you for standing up for your worth, for the worth of your profession and for the NHS.

I have the deepest admiration for you nurses, not least for being able to care at all for the thankless twits you come across.

Your profession gives light to the world, which in these dark times, is especially priceless. I’m sorry about what’s happening. Thank you for standing against it.

Far more people are with you and the nhs than not. It’s just that the loud mouths drown everyone else out (as usual..).

Do what feels right for you and keep hope. x

@LovinglifeAF

The only absence I have had were due to a shoulder dislocation due to being attacked by a patient and due to being strangled by a relative. I also had an absence due to covid (Fully vax, but worked with covid patients). I’m not disputing some serial absentees but quite frankly many nhs jobs have a higher level of work related absence. If nhs staff weren’t assaulted in the workplace the level of absence would be reduced also

@Maverickess

I had to complete intense on the job training , study days and competencies for six months. Every 3 years I have to revalidate and have a certain amount of CPD. My job role changes with new evidence and with staff shortages. There is compulsory university study in future.

£120 a year registration fees, £17 a month union fees.

It's interesting that this is the only thing you've picked up on out of my entire post. Nonetheless I will continue... in an a+e department 2 or 3 or 4 simultaneously sick patients where the area is monitored by one nurse (and that's not including the other 10 or 12 that are 'stable'but still need monitoring) cant be slotted neatly into a prioritised list. If one is arresting the other is vomiting blood and the other is screaming in pain and there is no one else to help you what do you do? ...that's my point. If you think I'm exaggerating ..think again ! Other AHPs have clinics with appointment times and turn their phones off so they aren't interrupted, nurses dont have that luxury.

As for receptionists, they take NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ADVICE OVER A PHONE TO ANY PATIENT. As a specialist community nurse I had to stop my car to answer the calls I had from patients doctors and district nurses not to mention queries from other disciplines and management, often via the receptionists. It wasnt all day every day but it was a vital resource that was frequent enough.

There is no excuse for rudeness from staff but the reality is as a community nurse i have been physically and verbally attacked, been accused of some things I have not done just because I said 'no' nicely to patients and family members. My friend who works in a+e has been effed and blinded at because she is incapable of being in 3 places at once, spat at, bitten and once had to remove a knife from a drugged up addict.
So no, not every nurse has the luxury of a receptionist, and no, asking someone to not have a heart attack because you're already dealing with 3 or 4 very sick patients isnt quite the same as missing your break and scheduling in your phone calls and emails while you politely deal with all their queries.

@B1rthis

I think nurses should’ve gone on strike years ago and generally nursing being a very vocational and people pleasing profession has rolled over and eroded our conditions to care for patients. But now it’s got to the point where even with nurses working to the bone it isn’t enough.

There’s been a post covid exodus.

I have only been qualified just under 2 years. And I’m only in my 20s. I think strike action is long overdue.

@B1rthis

I am unsure of the long term solution but have a PP of improvements from a community perspective.

A shift away from individualism and back towards community values might encourage nursing as a profession but I do think many brits think nursing is beneath them.

Recruitment of brilliant nurses from abroad is a very short term solution.

A change from the tory government would prevent further harm imo.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4549623-post-birth-trauma-severe-damage-to-rectal-area

Are we going to mention the vaccine mandates or will that continue to be the elephant in the room.

I support a pay rise for nurses and drs and also a massive funding increase to increase staff numbers.

If I need to pay more NI then so be it, but as a mother I have had enough of my toddler with complex health needs not having access to adequate healthcare.

@mmmmmmghturep

This was revoked for NHS workers. It was never even applied to Scotland. In the context of the NHS it’s not even an ant in the room. I have one anti vaxxer colleague who remains my colleague.

It did however apply to social care in England and that was wrong. It was the Tory government after all so not a surprise.

It’s a very minor contributory factor.

And you earn £125 a week more than someone who doesn't have any of that or needs to do any of that, who gives people leisure experiences.

It's absolute madness that people we rely on to literally keep us alive are so poorly regarded, one nurse, or even 100 nurses are not 'The NHS' the issues come from the top down, like with any organisation, small or large, if it's badly managed at the top then the outcomes are bad at the bottom, somehow though those at the top seem to be the sacred cow that can never be criticised for their incompetence - that's reserved for the individuals who can do nothing to change it.

I hope things get better for you and those like you, and please know that there are people behind you, that wish to stand beside you, things won't improve in the NHS until we start realising what we're losing by continuing this cycle and act to stop it.

Also, in regards to the drop in the standard of care that is being alleged.

My brilliant colleague is 75 years old. Qualified in 1971. He maintains that the patients are sicker now - this is proven - patients would’ve died from cardiac arrests, sepsis, Cardiogenic shock etc that survive today. The 70s was also very poor for people with learning disabilities and mental health conditions. And the LGBT community.

Looking to the past can only provide so many answers, the number of skills required for nursing has shocked my own mother who only left practice in 2001.

@Maverickess
thanks so much xx

When I read threads like this it baffles me how so many people on here believe that we aren't overpopulated and don't need to worry about immigration.

My daughter's fiance is currently in an additional ward opened up following 28 hours in ED with sepsis... unknown cause still not sure what is causing it. He's an ITU trained nurse and worked in that ED for 4 months but left because of stress. All the nurses who started with him have left. I've been a GP for 31 years and I've never known a situation like it. We cannot get doctors or nurses to work with us. We are having to work more sessions in our normal working weeks in order to get holidays. The health board wants us to take on more patients but we physically can't. What I do see though is huge spending on agency staff instead of improving current staffs conditions and a lot of new management roles that came in with the new GP contract in Scotland making us attend meetings to create flow charts. It's dire

@Gakatsbsk (what a username 🤣) I love using hospital at home but their capacity is so limited and I hate having to admit these people to hospital as it just makes them worse on many levels. Delirium, worse mobility,increased infections etc.

IME the lack of contact with nurses when a patient on a ward means that they have little or no knowledge of how you are progressing so the info presented at rounds is out of date. This then leads to unnecessarily prolonging stays in hospital/inappropriate treatment being given.

You could die or discharge yourself and it would be hours before anyone realised. It feels safer to be at home where you can be closely monitored by relatives than to be in hospital.

How to get staffing back to safe levels 1is a huge issue.

@ozymandiusking I was working as a junior doctor in ITU in 1989/90 when this came in. There used to be 3 shifts a day, early late and night. Made up 37.5 hours so 2 days off a week. Then they went to alternate weeks 3/4 12 hour shifts as they hoped getting more days off would be better but after 8 hours you don't function well and you're tired so I think a lot hate it. Also they go on and off nights with little recovery. I work 10.5 hour days as a GP to get all my paperwork done and by 3.30 I'm done. I struggle to get to 6pm. Usually only manage 2 x15 minute breaks in that time too. It's just grueling

@RosesAndHellebores oops! I do sometimes forget my patients name on the way to the waiting room... usually because I'm mulling over your notes in my mind....I tend to call first name surname though as if patients mishear then several stand up at once slightly higher chance of getting correct patient if I call both names... especially with masks. I do agree that using first name without permission is bad and apart from some patients I always use full name or title.

I've had bad experiences and good BUT
The NHS saved me as a prem baby
Again with a head injury and seizures
And again with cauda equina
I get my £££ drugs (GCSF and Xolair) for free
All my MRI scans
The amazing consultants I see every 3 months

My mum died 2 weeks ago, they moved to to a different ward with a side room. I got there at 10pm and the nurse made me a cup of tea, sat in the side room and said "she's just been moved here so tell me about her. Anything you like"
She checked on me every so often, made me more tea, got the chaplain and was straight there when I came out the room to tell her she had gone. I appreciated her more than I could say

Not sure what's wrong but I think some if my replies have come up multiple times....how embarrassing

Frankly the entire public sector needs to kick the Government into touch for proper staffing levels and pay commensurate with the qualifications and responsibility their roles entail.

I’ve just spent 6 hours in children’s a&e this evening and had a long discussion with some of the other waiting parents.
I don’t know what exactly is the cause of such chaos within the nhs but one of the topics raised was how nice it was a few decades ago when children who were very poorly had their doctor come and visit them instead of waiting to be triaged in a&e.

my mother was a nurse and did her training in the 70’s. Back then they enrolled lots of young girls from age 17 onwards and gave them somewhere to live and study and most of their studying was practical based care work.
I think it’s a combination of so many things that has led the nhs down this path.
but Yes I do support nhs workers 100% in whatever way they see fit to deal with the issue and if that means striking then so be it.
nhs workers absolutely deserve a pay rise we would be nowhere without them.

its useless when it comes to mental health, i ve tried at least ten anti-depressants and feel no different. They refuse to give us anything else

Yes. Many countries far poorer than the UK have an actual paediatrician as each child's GP and they will see them at short notice even at weekends.

The UK health system is a disaster that os getting worse and worse.