To be so upset that the leader of the Rochdale grooming gang has been allowed to stay in the UK!

[vermicello]

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/ringleader-rochdales-infamous-sex-grooming-24336978

Those poor girls. It is like they have been abused twice, first by him and his fellow groomers and secondly by the UK justice system, police and social workers. It is sending them a big message that their right to feel safe and protected is not a concern. I can't imagine how traumatic it must be to know you could bump into your abuser at any time and nothing can be done about it. Our justice system is a disgrace.

To top it all off, he has apparently received hundreds of thousands of pounds in legal aid courtesy of taxpayers. I really don't want my taxes wasted on people like him. So upsetting and infuriating!

Human rights and the right to a legal defence apply to everybody, not only the people you personally like, support, or agree with. That’s about the upshot of it. Whilst his victims may - completely justifiably - feel justice has not been served, ultimately I wouldn’t want a system which operated any other way.

I've never liked the idea that someone should get a bigger punishment because they have another citizenship. (Haven't read the link, know nothing about this case, it just the principle that bothers me.)

It's not a bigger punishment and is a way to protect vulnerable victims who might bump into their abusers. Why is concern for the victims so often seemingly second place to those of the guilty?

He's a UK citizen so it must be this way. As with any system sometimes the dregs fall through the loopholes but I would far rather live in a country that protects its people's citizenship than not.

I'm more stunned that he only did 4 years. Shows how little the system values kids.

Yep he’s a British citizen it’s not as simple as just deporting him.
They are obviously incredibly cruel and predatory people. It doesn’t stop them being british citizens.

You are being completely unreasonable for thinking you can deny legal representation for any UK citizen.
You are

I agree, its discussing and I'm outraged that we treat such despicable hateful people so well.
But, erosion of human rights always starts with people we don't like. I find the government wanting to rip up the human rights act while being cheered on by large sections of the public more chilling than anything. It is a very dark and dangerous path to start along, learn the lessons of history do not give one inch.

He hasn't been denied legal representation in any way. He was a duel British-Pakistan citizen and gave up his Pakistani citizenship so he couldn't be deported. I understand this is the UK justice system. I just think it is crap.

As another pp said it’s worse he’s been released at all , he will always be a risk

What happens if you are not entitled to legal aid but can't afford a lawyer? How do you get right to a legal defence if this is the case?

The "Human Rights Act" can go to hell. If someone commits a serious crime like this and has citizenship or ancestral links to another country, of course we should deport them. Why should the "human rights" of a convicted rapist take precedent over the rights of girls and women not to be raped?

The sooner the HRA is abolished in this country and we start looking out for the rights of the law abiding citizen over the rights of the criminal, the better.

Shame they couldn't have wired him, and others like him to the mains.

But where would he be deported? He renounced his Pakistani citizenship before all this process began so he's wholly a UK citizen. As such, he's as entitled to legal aid for defence as anybody else.

Most people aren't entitled to legal aid.

And within recent memory it would have been these girls in the dock and demonised by public opinion while these men seen almost as innocent bystanders just doing what men do. I wonder, if back then, the human rights act you are so keen to rip up might have prevented these girls having their babies removed from them?

Did he renounce it before he was arrested?

Because in countries with regimes which do not uphold human rights, it rarely starts and ends with the offenders many people would support having rights removed from - such as this man and rapists and murderers. It then moves to other groups where similar support may lie, such as thieves or drug dealers. Then people who are politically difficult, and people who disagree with the government; and journalists; and ordinary people who have protested against this happening. That’s the whole point of human rights, that they aren’t applied only to people who the government decides are worthy of having them.

Everybody is entitled to legal aid for defence in criminal cases. You can't choose your solicitor, but you're entitled to one.

I wonder whether the new British Bill of Rights will help in these situations. A long time ago I remember a story where the person claimed a pet cat was enough family to prevent deportation.

Well, the justice system seems to be sending out the message that the real victim is this man and the concerns of the girls are not important. Don't forget these girls were ignored by the police and social services for many years so not to stoke community tensions.

The fact that he was only imprisoned for 4 years is shameful enough, to compound their trauma with him not being deported is disgraceful. No wonder so many vulnerable girls do not report being abused when they see the justice system seems to hold them in such contempt.

Are you entitled to full legal aid if you are a millionaire or earn over a certain amount?

He shouldn't be stripped of his UK citizenship or deported, but he should be jailed for life. As should a hypothetical person who did the same thing but only holds UK citizenship. That would also solve the issue of his victims running into him on the street.

He’ll be back doing it before long, - if he’s not already. The grooming gangs in Rochdale never stopped and the police are ignoring it again. Same in Oxford.

So Britain should accept anybody with 'ancestral links' to the UK who commits a serious crime in another country? Be careful what you wish for.