To find that working in a school really puts me off having children?

[ElephantePicante]

I love my job but corr blimey what a form of contraception it is. The genuine mental health issues where children can't get through their daily timetable without 20 time outs and check ins, the students who MUST be escorted from the front gate because they can't possibly walk 2 minutes on their own, the competitive (and questionable) mental health issues about self harm and who has the worst anxiety, the bullying over snap chat, the not recognising that they're nervous for a test (which is normal) and not suffering from an anxiety disorder, the parents who demand that their child isn't possibly absconding from lesson and there must be a genuine reason why their little angel isn't in class, the school refusers, the teachers verbally abused by snowflakey parents at the gate, the parents who find it outrageous that their child gets a sanction for forgetting their P.E. bag. I could go on. Friends who work in Primaries have equally enlightening stories. It's all sad and exhausting at the same time and really makes you stop and think about whether you want to condemn yourself to it all. Nobody holds their gorgeous newborn and thinks they'll turn out to be hard work and the cause of 10 phone calls a week from school.

Well to add a side note here. you've got OCD totally wrong so maybe you should watch some videos.part of the problem is the "messy" thinking behind a serious disabling illness.your daughter could have a like up in her room and have the worse OCD out.its not oh I'm so obsessively tidy I'm OCD.that thinking needs to change.

I'd say give them cooking too.if you get them to be given the money and go get tea and cook it or start smaller and say it's such and such for tea can you help out tonight.or help out with you.
And then praaaaaise to the rooftops. Boys especially really seem to come into their own around cheffing it up😊.it was a real turning point.from Bolognese to plate swipes of sauce and stacks of chips and fancy lamb chops piles!. They loved it.its gets their heads out of lazy but also gets them excited and then they love the praise. And learning to cook is something they and you will appreciate for life.
Talk to them.keep talking.
Arguments can be really diffused with a note under their doors.
Asking for help rather than making it their job.so shit I've so much to do so you think you could help me out this washing on. A few times of doing this helps them feel useful.
Tell don't ask.stand firm but don't get into a slangung match if you can or make it about what they don't do.ir being up last week's fuck up to berate them with again.
Talk in the car when your both facing the front.
Fuel and sleep.

How long does it take? Okay, let me see if I can give you a flavour.

I have a y10 class where 3 students have an EHCP, so there are two LSAs in the room. That's two people I have to brief about the lesson content, in advance of the lesson. Every lesson. About 10 mins per LSA, per lesson, so 20 mins per lesson, x 4 lessons a week. We have to talk through the lesson content, the outcomes needed and how to get those kids there.

Then I have another six students with SEN.

One needs everything printed in A3. That takes and extra 5-15 mins - setting up the increased size on the printer, walking to a different block where the printer that spits out A3 is, waiting on the print queue, walking back. So, say 10 mins per lesson x 4 lessons.

2 hrs so far!

There are three students who need me to re write the task instructions in large font, in very short sentences, well spaced, and print for them. Say 5 mins per lesson, again, x 4 lessons per week.

The other two need me to change any writing activity into something more approachable - so instead of 'write three paragraphs' it's 'full in the gaps in para 1, use these sentence stems in para 2 to complete it, and use this word bank in para 3 to finish. Say another 10 mins per lesson.

We're up to 3 hours of extra preparation per week for the 4 hours I teach them.

Now add in the 20 mins or so a week I spend on the phone to parents of that class, some of whom have behavioural issues, the 10-15 per week printing all work for the week for a student who is excluded/secluded or refusing school.

It's not about the time it takes to print one sheet on peach paper.

It's (I would estimate) 100% additional time needed to get these students through an hour's lesson.

I do it, because I'm extremely fond of them, and because it's my job. But don't you dare tell me it's not a lot of extra work.

I don't think you should be a teacher op.

Is the competitive anxiety, a result of how we are treating it as a society?

You deal with all the problems so your view is slightly skewed.

It's overwhelming though. You don't have to have kids.

"It's not about the time it takes to print one sheet on peach paper.

It's (I would estimate) 100% additional time needed to get these students through an hour's lesson.

I do it, because I'm extremely fond of them, and because it's my job. But don't you dare tell me it's not a lot of extra work."

Very well said @HereBeFuckery, most teachers do want to do their best by all students but the increasing demands on time are making it impossible and causing resentment.
I teach 14 KS3 classes, each class averages 5 registered SEN and about 10 more with other issues; then I have my exam classes on top. That is around 500 people per week whose individual needs I must remember and balance without disadvantaging others.
Then I have my own family whose needs are neglected because there is no time. I haven't seen or spoken to my parents in 6 weeks as every weekend has been school activities eg sports competitions, D of E, exam revision etc.
It sounds easy 'just put the right colour paper in the printer', but that is one child's needs, we are dealing with hundreds.
I would not change jobs ever, it is a standing joke that even if I won the lottery I would still be in front of my classes, but a lack of resilience amongst students is beginning to take its toll on the profession.

You have weekly calls from your daughters secondary school to tell you how good she is? I’m amazed they find the time.

@ballonsinhightrees you do sound like a very good and dedicated teacher, the one thing that however got me when my son was in mainstream having issues though was the parent blame by teachers which there is a hint of in your post, my son has asd and had issues in school, I always wanted to work with the school but this proved very difficult. I must say a few individual teachers were very good but the slt and general attitude of the school was not. I fought really hard to get my son an ehcp and he had 32.5 hours 1-1 which was mainly to monitor when his anxieties were building up so he could be taken for a break before he had a meltdown rather than academic help as he’s ahead academically. However certain teachers then chose to use his 1-1 to help other children, which again I appreciated teachers are stretched and I have no issue with if he is calm and fine, but then he’d have a meltdown and things would escalate as he’s got no support and I’d be talked to as though this was my fault and I needed to do something. He also had strategies that were supposedly in place, like he had a communication book so that I could not anything that had happened at home that might effect his behaviour but the teacher said there was 30 kids in the class and she didn’t have time to look in a book, then has a go at me because he is having a meltdown for no reason.This was primary and I did eventually move him to specialist and then the class had no ta anyway as they lost the funding for my sons 1-1

This is a depressing Thread
not because of the OP
hell she’s entitled to her opinion !

but because of the total abyss for sen kids
and the total crisis in kids mental health caused in part by the crazy world we exist in

and the education system that’s the UK seems to think is brilliant despite the major changes that have occurred in the past decade

amywau you’d love my son , he has not been in education for two years

In a way, a balance needs to be struck, and the balance is way off at the moment. In my subject a certain amount of literacy is needed for the students to access the work, but zero time given to actually work on their literacy myself as I have so much content to get through. So no, I can't help them progress in that regard. And yes, students will need to learn to cope by the time they leave school.

As for how long it takes to provide the right colour: reprographics, where all the coloured paper is being kept and has to be counted out and recorded, is a 3min walk across the site, if I am not being stopped on the way by a query. To get just one sheet of paper in a special colour (i.e., anything other than white) I need to find the time to walk there, get the paper, hand-write the precise number and nature of the paper taken into a record book and then queue for one of the two printers/ copiers currently working between almost 200 staff. It can take a good 15min to provide for the children in just one class.

But that is not my point. My point was that there is NO WAY a student actually cannot read from one day to the next when the colour background needed suddenly changes from yellow to blue. It's an excuse used. And it is encouraged through over-diagnosis and over-inclusivity in a way society just doesn't allow for. As then evidenced when they have to enter real, adult life where they'd be laughed out of the building if they demanded a magenta copy of whatever paperwork they need.

I am not talking about severe issues here - I teach plenty of children with those (and yes, I have accessed empathy lab equipment for training purposes), and I do so successfully - from the practically blind to the severely autistic. I am talking about the very mild cases, which are often encouraged to be diagnosed as something other than lack of grit or sheer laziness, which then turn into learned helplessness. And that is neither helping their mental wellbeing nor doing them any favours whatsoever.

@ThrallsWife this is a genuine question so don’t take the wrong way, my sons not dyslexic so I don’t know a lot about it other than bits I’ve read on sites I’m on for asd so there may be a genuine reason for this but Why does everything have to be photocopied onto coloured paper? Can they not use overlays on the white paper?

Ffs, if she doesn’t want kids, she doesn’t want kids. It does not make you negative, @ElephantePicante . It makes you sensible, knowing what you want/don’t want.

@ElephantePicante , I’ve never wanted children as I don’t like them, have no interest in being a biological parent to anything and don’t want the responsibility.

I knew this before teaching and during teaching realised my erstwhile suspicions were correct. Some of us were not meant to be parents. I’d also hate to add further unwanted/unnecessary humans to the planet’s burden (I’m surprised people don’t give a shit and end up having 3 + children).

I’m fed up of people saying you’ll love your own. What, you’ll love the humans you were pressured to bring into this world? Of course, but is it what you want?

People of my mother’s generation seem to think I should have children because they did/felt obliged to.

It's (I would estimate) 100% additional time needed to get these students through an hour's lesson.

I do it, because I'm extremely fond of them, and because it's my job. But don't you dare tell me it's not a lot of extra work.

But surely the TAs are there to help you put. Get them to do some printing and stop being such a martyr! You sound very resentful of any kids that don't fit your view of "normal". It's not "extra" work, its your actual job!

At secondary this is not what TAs do! It all falls to the teacher

👏
Teaching is a bigger job than most people can ever imagine.

@Crocsandshocks What's your job?

Crocsandshocks What's your job?
Tertiary education for over 20 years and partner is secondary teacher of over 30.

What's yours?

My daughter who is 31 is a year 6 teacher and doesn’t want children. A few of her colleagues of similar age say the same.

@Crocsandshocks Secondary teacher for nearly 25 years.

Just wanted to see if you'd actually done the job you were being judgmental about. Very few people understand its demands.

I'm not entirely sure how to quote but you said this...
"It looks heartbreaking to end up with a child that you put your all into but who can't cope with normal life despite all the interventions and support."
I have one of these kids. He needs SO much time and support from me, my husband and other adults around him. Nothing particularly wrong with him but he is bloody tough to parent. This was heartbreaking to read that you think he isn't worthwhile. Equally though, I'm exhausted parenting him

Couldn’t agree more. The school system here is ridiculous, narrow, massively over crowded in terms of space and facilities, conformist to an insane degree and boring. Children are only reacting to being forced through the sausage factory. My kids were great until they went into year 6: engaged, loved learning and their teachers… along came SATS and a very academically focused and strict secondary .. and they just disengaged. It all became about fitting in and not getting detentions. And no, they don’t get in trouble and I’m never up the school, before you think it.

I work in the education sector but I am not a teacher, TA or a job that really has anything to do with education or the pupils, it is an unusual job so I don't want to out myself by stating what it is but I find that things haven't really changed since I was at secondary school in the 90's , children getting hour long detentions for having a bracelet on them, the obsession with rules as opposed to education. I think this creates loads of extra work as minor misdemeanours are sanctioned and reported and recorded. It is tedious to be on the receiving end of it- automated emails about points for lack of equipment, a protractor, a rubber, your 15 year old was chatting, I don't really need too know, he's 15! It is like how much admin can we generate in the school day! He gets good grades and that is lovely to hear but no don't have children if you think a human adolescent behaving normally is challenging. Of course kids test boundaries but sometimes I hear what he's saying and he is right about school frankly. O cann luckily run for the hills way from that environment as my job is in demand in all other sectors, I only worked there for term time so that could be with my wonderful individual kids. You are just seeing 'pupils whereas parents hopefully see and love unconditionally the child they have created, very different perspectives there.

I’m a teacher, and at first, I thought the same thing. But, I have come to notice that in the vast majority of cases, the parents deserve the children they have. Great parents very often have brilliant, wonderful children. The children of awful parents are most often identifiable. You reap what you sow!

+A friends DD insisted she was suffering from social anxiety, after one of her friendship group, who had a difficult home life, told her friends she had been prescribed beta blockers for her anxiety.

Within a month every girl in their group was ‘suffering’ from the same condition and was on medication. Friends DD only appeared to be anxious about crowds on the bus (mum ended up driving her to and from school) although she seemed to be okay with crowds in parties and nights out 🙄*

l find this quite insulting. My dd had bad anxiety and needs beta blockers. Anxiety is a hidden disability. My dd appears to be fine, laughing with her friends. But she’s really not. Vomiting before she goes to school, shaking with fear, scared of speaking to doctors or dentists.

Dont make the assumption that because they seem ok they are ok.