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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find that working in a school really puts me off having children?

132 replies

ElephantePicante · 27/06/2022 21:28

I love my job but corr blimey what a form of contraception it is. The genuine mental health issues where children can't get through their daily timetable without 20 time outs and check ins, the students who MUST be escorted from the front gate because they can't possibly walk 2 minutes on their own, the competitive (and questionable) mental health issues about self harm and who has the worst anxiety, the bullying over snap chat, the not recognising that they're nervous for a test (which is normal) and not suffering from an anxiety disorder, the parents who demand that their child isn't possibly absconding from lesson and there must be a genuine reason why their little angel isn't in class, the school refusers, the teachers verbally abused by snowflakey parents at the gate, the parents who find it outrageous that their child gets a sanction for forgetting their P.E. bag. I could go on. Friends who work in Primaries have equally enlightening stories. It's all sad and exhausting at the same time and really makes you stop and think about whether you want to condemn yourself to it all. Nobody holds their gorgeous newborn and thinks they'll turn out to be hard work and the cause of 10 phone calls a week from school.

OP posts:
pastaandpesto · 28/06/2022 06:24

@WonderingWanda

Becoming a parent has made me more aware of where parents get it wrong even when they are trying to get it right and it actually making life harder for their own kids.

Would you be able to expand on this a bit, wondering? As a parent who is trying to do the right thing but often feels like I'm failing, I'd be really interested to have a teachers perspective on what helps teens and what is actually counterproductive!

(especially any tips on dealing with capable but academically lazy teen boys)

Butchyrestingface · 28/06/2022 06:32

Surely everything outlined in the OP is an argument against TEACHING rather than PARENTING? 😐

ThrallsWife · 28/06/2022 06:48

Mmh, sitting on the fence here and there is a good chance I'll be slaughtered, but I do think that a lot of it comes down to parenting. I have always believed that early parenting is the key to the type of teens and adults children will grow into. This comes with the usual disclaimer about severe disabilities/ conditions etc not featuring in this, but let's face it, those are rare - much rarer than many will care to admit as we do over-diagnose what would have been seen as personality quirks not too long ago.

The key is to raise children with a degree of resilience, and part of that is allowing failure. It is no surprise that many of the young adults we see these days lack basic grit; they were raised in the era where Labour advocated that no child must be allowed to fail at anything and we handed out certificates for participation rather than celebrating winners at the likes of sports day. I remember spending hour upon hour with students re-taking exam after exam until they passed, re-drafting coursework over and over with way too much teacher input until it was just about acceptable.

We are indeed raising a generation (now turning into a second generation) of children who have rarely ever - if at all - been allowed to experience failure, and learn from it.

Much of it is down to misunderstood love, where a child throwing a tantrum over losing a board game is avoided by letting the child win on purpose, or a child falling over is immediately over-comforted rather than accepting that all of this is part of learning.

Some of it is down to lack of time and/ or resources due to other pressures: how many children are not allowed to help in, say, the kitchen, because it would get too messy? How many do not tidy and clean their rooms, because it wouldn't be perfect at the age of 4? Sadly, those pressures - be they due to outwards pressures of perfection or simple lack of time - lead to parents doing more and more for their children, which does lead to learned helplessness.

And then there is the over-diagnosis of, and over-protectiveness with, SEND. Yes, I'm donning my hard hat here, but it is very true that we are making way too many children too dependent on help in that department rather than allowing them to figure out strategies, which will help them in later life.

I have one class where I need to project my screen with all of a yellow, blue, pink and green background to allow for every child with mild dyslexia to be able to "access" the writing on the board. I increasingly get confronted by children who, from one day to the next, "can't read" the writing of a piece of text, because it has the wrong colour background. Those who refuse to use an overlay and need everything printed out on the correct shade of orange. I may sound callous here, but my worry extends beyond my classroom - with all of this learned helplessness, how will these students cope when they reach adulthood and their bills get printed on white paper and no one is there to help them draft their application for a loan over and over again until the numbers fit?

OP, what you are experiencing is, I strongly believe, down to all of the above. I am raising my own children with very different personalities. One is - despite suffering from crippling anxiety at times due to complications during my pregnancy - a teen who is mostly self-reliant and finds ways to deal with situations. Yes, we have had many tears and emotional moments, but we are working through how to deal with them and I see progress every day. One will exploit every loophole they can in my and everyone else's rules, but the cheeky little bugger also knows boundaries and will rarely overstep them, or shows genuine remorse on the rare occasion they do.

It is very possible to raise genuinely nice children which turn into lovely adults.

TheVillageBaker · 28/06/2022 06:59

I work in a school and I can see why you feel that way. However, my own DCs are great and I love spending time with them. If anything, it makes you enjoy your own DCs even more.

Tumbleweed101 · 28/06/2022 06:59

I work in early years and had my children long before doing so when I was young and naive but I can relate to this. I didn't realise how common things like ASD, SEN, speech and language issues and behavioural issues are. I'm not sure I could have coped with the care and the need to fight for everything children with such needs require and if I hadn't had my children already I'd be much more apprehensive about how difficult it might be. The children are lovely but getting the help and support they need can be hard. I was oblivious to it all when I had mine.

balalake · 28/06/2022 07:01

I would suggest that knowing all the lies and excuses you hear, it would make you determined if you had a child that they would be brought up reasonably.

UsernameIsCopied · 28/06/2022 07:02

I think the problem isn't the kids, it's school and our society. The constant focus on and talk about mental illnesses, the Internet, the school system where children are forced day in day out to do things they have no interest in and are never going to need again in their adult lives, small and stuffy classrooms where a bunch of kids are holed up together for hours being taught to be competitive, the focus on academic achievement,... I could go on. Our children are reacting to our society.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 28/06/2022 07:03

It’s because there is a rising mental health crisis with kids
it’s getting worse not better
and everything is put on the school to handle
its madness and not sustainable

schools are not funded to handle most of the issues you flag

that said being a parent of a kid with mental health issues is far from fulfilling

Penguinsaregreat · 28/06/2022 07:07

Totally agree op.
I'd had my children before I worked in a school. Until you have worked there you cannot imagine what it is like and how bad some parents and their children are.

Morph22010 · 28/06/2022 07:12

@ThrallsWife i can see what you are saying to a certain extent however it’s hard enough having a child with sen and parent blaming really doesn’t help and is something thst Is common with mainstream teachers. My child has asd and can have big meltdowns abs I remember his year 2 teacher having a go at me because he was emotional and I just needed to talk to him about emotions (like it’s something I’d never thought to do before), he also used to get tired at school and I was told I just needed to put him to bed earlier and all issues would be solved. School supposedly put things in place like introducing a communication book so thst I could communicate any issues for the day to try and reduce issues and meltdowns but the teacher never read it and told me she had 30 kids in the class and didn’t have time to read a book. I accept this but why suggest putting things in place if they are not doable in practise then continue to parent and child blame when things don’t work. Mines now in specialist so was probably fairly extreme for a ms child but it would have been a lot less stressful to have worked with the school rather than the constant parent blame

Morph22010 · 28/06/2022 07:17

balalake · 28/06/2022 07:01

I would suggest that knowing all the lies and excuses you hear, it would make you determined if you had a child that they would be brought up reasonably.

Whst if her child has asd, would she just sit back and say nothing and let the school get on with things and do nothing. Unfortunately the way the sen system works unless you fight and advocate for your child you’ll get no where, I know of many children where parents have trusted the school and now children are out of school completely and not even going out at all, how is thst going to help their adult life? I’m not blaming the schools abs teachers as they are in an impossible situation and I can see why they want to concentrate their efforts and funds on the many rather than a few, it’s the whole way sen funding works in mainstream that’s the issue, thankfully I’m out of it now

AnIckabog · 28/06/2022 07:22

I've lost it now but @Dancingwithhyenas post about how it isn't parenting - isn't that exactly the OPs point? That she knows from working with children that having children with high needs is a gamble, not something you can parent your way out of? And that it isn't a minority of children anymore but a significant proportion.
Agree entirely with the social contagion. It has been fuelled by the internet and had caused so many problems that wouldn't have existed. And of course, once a child tells themself they have anxiety and it is validated by an adult they end up with anxiety!

ChagSameachDoreen · 28/06/2022 07:35

You need to get a job in a better school!

WonderingWanda · 28/06/2022 07:40

pastaandpesto · 28/06/2022 06:24

@WonderingWanda

Becoming a parent has made me more aware of where parents get it wrong even when they are trying to get it right and it actually making life harder for their own kids.

Would you be able to expand on this a bit, wondering? As a parent who is trying to do the right thing but often feels like I'm failing, I'd be really interested to have a teachers perspective on what helps teens and what is actually counterproductive!

(especially any tips on dealing with capable but academically lazy teen boys)

Hi pastaandpesto, I'm not sure I can provide any magical advice for teenage boys. I imagine you are doing it all anyway. I think I was really referring to parents who either systematically over react or underreact to issues with their children. The ones who fail to believe their child would just sit there doing no work and it must be my fault or another students fault somehow, their child never alters their poor behvaviour. Or the ones who don't help to build resilliance in their kids, asking for special arrangements at the first sign of a nervous tummy ache. Their kids can't cope and their anxiety escalates till they are unable to sit in a classroom. I get it, as a parent we want to protect our kids and I'm not talking about kids with additional needs.

Anyway, lazy teen boys. Try to be consistent in rewards and sanctions (not too big, not too small). Don't be the parent who won't confiscate the xbox because they won't like you but maybe don't make that the first punishment. Back up the school as much as you can. Make sure they eat breakfast, get enough sleep (phones downstairs), get enough activity even if it's just you making them walk. Take them to visit colleges and /or universities if applicable so they can see the goal /aspire to more. Don't give up parenting because they look old enough to behave like adults, they still need you.

SheWoreYellow · 28/06/2022 07:47

OP, you’re not seeing the good bits.

My DD is 14 and has had a fairly tough time with school, being out for a term and moving school. So I’m really happy with how she’s doing now, but you won’t see this.
You won’t see her coming home and telling me about the funny things that happened at school. You won’t see her being nervous about a speaking German test and then doing really well in it. You won’t see her going to maths support sessions and then ‘getting’ it. You only see the problematic bits.

Morph22010 · 28/06/2022 07:50

@WonderingWanda you said you are not talking about kids with additional needs but how do you know which are which unless you are basing on diagnosis/sen register alone? My child is asd and now (thankfully) out of mainstream and in specialist but im still on a lot of parents groups. There are a lot of undiagnosed sen kids and generally parents always know their child best, and as I said unthread unless you advocate for your sen child you’ll get no where and thst goes from initial diagnosis through yo support in school. Do my question is how do you know the difference between parents thst are genuinely advocating for their undiagnosed sen child and parents thst are being over anxious abs their child is fine

StottyCakeandJam · 28/06/2022 09:19

@Morph22010 I also have a SEN child but that’s not what I was referring to. I was referring to the parents who have children who are doing well, have friends, are enjoying school yet their parents continuously complain. If their child has a bad day, it’s the end of the world. If they get told off, it’s ruined their life. If they don’t get the main part in the school play, it’s not fair and is knocking their confidence. Life is full of hard knocks and it’s a parent’s job to help children learn to negotiate these things as they grow so that they can deal with all that life will throw at them as adults. I don’t believe the Op was referring to children with genuine issues or needs and not was I! 😉

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/06/2022 09:24

I was a secondary teacher for 26 years. The kids were amazing. I loved them. Just so funny, hilarious even. All the time. Lots of separate personalities growing up. They were just the best.

And fwiw my dd has severe anxiety issues. Covid did for her.

Crocsandshocks · 28/06/2022 14:54

I have one class where I need to project my screen with all of a yellow, blue, pink and green background to allow for every child with mild dyslexia to be able to "access" the writing on the board. I increasingly get confronted by children who, from one day to the next, "can't read" the writing of a piece of text, because it has the wrong colour background

Hmm, isn't this called inclusivity? Empathy labs can give you a sense of what it's like to live with these conditions. You should try one and see (I'm not being goady here BTW).

Sleepingsatellite1 · 28/06/2022 16:49

beautyisthefaceisee · 27/06/2022 23:14

Erm - I can only hope you don't actually work in a school, with the open mocking of pupils and their needs on an internet forum.

What you say behind closed doors is one thing, but these are peoples' children, and if this ever got traced back to you you wouldn't need to worry about working in a school.

She clearly says she does.

Sleepingsatellite1 · 28/06/2022 16:51

Isausernameavailable · 28/06/2022 00:27

You are clearly in the wrong job. Go and do something that matters to you, for people you don't despise and probably don't have kids as you would probably be a bit shit at it

How dramatic

GuyFawkesDay · 28/06/2022 17:01

@Crocsandshocks yes it is, however it takes HOURS to prep it, which teachers aren't given)

Also the point stands that the bank statement, loan application or passport forms don't come in open dyslexic don't on a peach background....the kids are being helped at school but the gulf to "real life" then gets even wider

Pinkrollercoaster · 28/06/2022 17:03

I'm the opposite. I loved working in schools pre children but now I've had my own I can't bear the thought of all day then all night and weekend with kids!

Crocsandshocks · 28/06/2022 20:09

Also the point stands that the bank statement, loan application or passport forms don't come in open dyslexic don't on a peach background....the kids are being helped at school but the gulf to "real life" then gets even wider

So you want to make things as difficult as possible so they will be ready for the battles they will face in adulthood. That's not fair. You should be helping them progress in their literacy not providing extra hurdles. And how long does it really take to provide a different coloured paper or a different background on the screen? They are not making their disability up you know!

beautyisthefaceisee · 28/06/2022 20:22

Oestrogelsmuggler · 28/06/2022 06:19

She reserved the mocking for the parents - which I think is fair enough.

No.