To ask you not to tolerate the term "pregnant people"

[flashbac]

It might seem harmless and kind but it is not harmless. I'm seeing the term alot at the moment due to the horrid state of affairs across the pond.

Pregnancy, abortion, menstruation, menopause. These are issues that affect women and reasons why men have sought to control us, to control our bodies. We are seen as vessels, chattels, playthings, property, servants, and then, when we can no longer get pregnant, as useless rubbish. All due to our biological function. If you tolerate language change so these things are seen as 'people' rights issues that affect both 'men' and women we lose the truthful and valid argument that bad and oppressive practices, laws, policy decisions etc, e.g. banning of abortion, are rooted in misogyny, which of course they are.

Abortion bans are because of misogyny. Especially in countries where there is no free maternal care, no statutory maternity leave or pay, no shits given about the children once they are born. This is a women's rights issue, a sex based one. And we, as a sex class, must never take any rights we have for granted.

It's totally confusing to talk about people having a right to abortion, it makes it sound like you are including men who want their partner to have an abortion. That's exactly why we have invented more specific words like "women".

Exactly. Using the word "people" is actually quite sinister. It allows others to have control over women's bodies.

Although I agree with you, I have never actually heard anyone use this phrase in real life only ever online.

Some women don’t have and have never had a uterus though.
And some men don’t have a penis.

I'm amazed anyone falls for this lie. Erasing female language has NEVER been about inclusivity for transmen. It has always been about uncoupling the word woman from the language used to describe things that can only happen to a female body. It is about not drawing everyone's attention to the fact that transwomen are not women. The loudest and most dominant trans group are transwomen because they are...

This👆

If inclusivity were the reason, TRA would be attacking the use of man in male health literature. Gender non conforming people could be included without erasing women, but this is unacceptable to males who wish to be included in the word women. Patriarchy in action ,if you can't name the oppressed, you can't fight the oppression.

I'm amazed anyone falls for this lie. Erasing female language has NEVER been about inclusivity for transmen. It has always been about uncoupling the word woman from the language used to describe things that can only happen to a female body.

I agree. The trampling of the word "woman" and scolding of women who say the obvious - that it's the word used to describe adult human females - is, to me, like the boiling a frog analogy:

"Just include [word/group]"
"Be nice, include [word/group]"
"You know what's nicer, kinder? Making it ALL [word/group]"
"Oh look, you're all cut off from who you are and all your support..."

You look back, and dimly remember...

Abortion bans are because of misogyny. Especially in countries where there is no free maternal care, no statutory maternity leave or pay, no shits given about the children once they are born. This is a women's rights issue, a sex based one. And we, as a sex class, must never take any rights we have for granted.

Only now how do I get back? It's not one relationship in a society that helps women that I'm stuck in. It's a whole society.

When people look back in history they'll realise how really f@cked up we were .

So can you see who the words ‘uterus haver’ would be offensive to those women? That implies they are not women. If a female does not have a uterus, she’s still a woman. If a male does not have a uterus, that’s normal biology. All women are female. All females do not identify as women. They are still female though. Maybe we should go back to female and male
for clarity

The OP is conflating attempts to make health provision inclusive of trans people with threats to women’s sexual and reproductive rights. There is absolutely NO REASON at all why trans inclusion means we can’t talk about misogyny and biology. We can call women women and recognise that trans men also can and do get pregnant.

The fact that they can still get pregnant and may need an abortion, and that they are still oppressed due to their sex, is proof that "living as a man" is a nonsense.

I have a lot of sympathy for trans men because I think that in most cases their identity comes from a place of trauma and a desire to opt out of womanhood. But this just shows that you can't opt out of it so you may as well embrace the label "woman" - meaning adult human female, reject the stereotypes that go with it, and fight for your sex based rights.

It is acknowledging that people who were born female and now live as male

How does someone live as a male please?

You have no sympathy at all. You just dismissed their core selfhood as “a nonsense”. You were also extremely offensive and judgemental in suggesting that their experience of self is routed in trauma.

I’d like to know this too. Maybe then all women could live as males and misogyny would be dead. Just give us the rules then

We can call women women and recognise that trans men also can and do get pregnant.

They aren't calling women however. That's the whole point of the thread, which you totally misconstrued in the argument you made.

Yes please- do remind me of the definition of female and male.

Because getting pregnant and giving birth, and "living as a man" are completely incompatible.

You know there’s this really cool thing called a dictionary. You can get them as books or online. Stop being obtuse and explain why you think women are not allowed to define themselves but trans people are?

I totally disagree. I live in the world and do not see the word “woman” going out of fashion. I am a woman and see no threat to referring to myself, and being recognised by others, as such. I only see the odd attempt here and there to make health provision more inclusive so that assumptions are not automatically made about how gender maps onto biology. The perceived threat to women is routed in transphobia.

I dismissed it as nonsense because it is nonsense.

They are redefining men and women as stereotypes, which is offensive to the rest of us. And whilst I can see why some female people might not like the idea of being a woman, they can't identify out of their sex and they won't gain any male privilege, so it is entirely pointless.

The men on the right want to take away women’s rights by controlling bodies, the men on the left want to take away women’s rights by controlling the language needed to defend those rights.

It’s two sides of the same misogynistic coin. Toss it, and women lose either way.

Do what is gender?

'It is acknowledging that people who were born female and now live as male or as non-binary still have a uterus and therefore can still menstruate and get pregnant.'

If you're born female and still have a uterus then you're still a woman. Sorry.

Its the removal of ‘women’ but not the removal of ‘men’ from medical literature that signals something to be concerned about.

Men have prostrates. Whilst people have uteruses. Surely that alone indicates that this is not about being ‘inclusive’ but is rather misogyny hidden in a clever disguise. And one that works going by comments made here.

Plus, given that typically it’s TW voices that seem to be heard the most in public debate, why was it that the words ‘man/men’ were not the first to be removed from medical journals and health services to make them feel better about themselves? Odd that…

The dictionary definition isn’t scientific though.

Sorry, WHAT??

You are so far off fucking base. Sit down.

Absolutely.

It's actually incredibly selfish imo to insist on using the word "people" in this scenario because it makes you feel better.

It actually really fucking matters on a much wider scale that this is seen as a WOMAN'S issue. Transmen aren't confused about the fact they are biologically female. They won't read "woman" and not understand that actually on a biological level it includes them.

But it matters that this is not seen as a "people's" issue. It matters that people know this is a misogynistic oppression of WOMEN, not PEOPLE. Distinction does matter.

And to turn that around because you individually want to be "included" in that with your preferred whatever the fuck (when you're already fucking included in the word woman) is utterly selfish