Please give it to me straight

[toddlerdrama]

I'm wondering if you think a two and a half year old should listen when being told NOT to do something ?

Do/did yours stop doing whatever they're doing when told to stop ?

Would they listen and stop some of the time ? But other times not ?

I keep having this argument with my mum, who tells me my DD is extremely badly behaved. I've asked questions around this on here before, under different names and I pretty much always get the response that it's normal.

I'll give you the latest example.. yesterday while talking to my mum on speaker phone, whilst also changing my newborn, my DD walked in and tried to push over the little trolley containing all his carefully folded clothes. I told her to come over to look at something, she ignored me and kept trying to push the trolley over. I then started saying STOP, don't do that, don't push the trolley etc. she kept ignoring me and kept trying. I then started raising my voice, at which point she eventually threw something at me in defiance, but did eventually stop.

All the while my mum was on the phone and absolutely shocked that DD didn't listen. She was like, I can't believe she doesn't listen to you at all. It's incredible, she's so naughty, this child OMG Blabla bla bla.

Please give it to me straight. Is my mum right ? Is she so badly behaved ? What can I do differently? We are due to see my mum for a few weeks now and I'm worried she will keep telling me how terrible my child is. I know she's not easy, but I kind of thought it's normal for her age. She's at nursery, where apparently they don't have any concerns, generally speaking.

Should I be disciplining another way ? I generally try to distract and explain and then I end up shouting sometimes. If she's upset because she can't do something I'm always there to comfort her. My mum says we should just leave her. In fact, she told me put her in the bathroom yesterday and close the door as a punishment. I am absolutely shocked and would never do that.

While writing this, I realise that the fact she wanted me to put her in the bathroom, kind of discredits any opinions she has...

Everyone focusing on the fact I said ' don't ' - I definitely also said NO several times. It didn't make much difference. Also someone commented on the trolley and the dangers of it etc. it's so small, it's made out of plastic and wouldn't even hurt my newborn if if fell on him.

In terms of doing the attention thing, it's definitely true that she acts up more to get my attention. I have as much one on one time with her as possible and often just let the baby be. But of course, nappy changes and feeding the baby has to be done sometimes and she often gives me a particular look with a strange cry/ scream when I'm feeding the baby. I tell her to come and hold the bottle or help with the nappy all the time, but she's not into it yet.

I do try and get her engaged with the baby as much as possible in the sense that I do pretend voices while holding out the baby towards her. She finds that really funny. She's also started to go to the baby when he's crying and asking him if he's OK and it's ok baby it's ok. Then she strokes his tummy and turns on the music on his swing. It's really cute ! I think she's starting to accept him more and more because she's also started saying - let's take baby - when we are going somewhere ( as I usually put the baby in the car last ). She's also asked ' where's baby ' when he's not around. I would like her to be interested in ' helping ' more, as I know toddlers like that- but she basically likes to help when she likes to help, rather than being asked ! That's her all over ! Same as when you ask her about numbers or colours etc, she only tells you sometimes. She's not a performance monkey type child. ( I was apparently ! I'm not surprised if they locked me in the bathroom ! )

It's really cute ! I think she's starting to accept him more and more because she's also started saying - let's take baby - when we are going somewhere ( as I usually put the baby in the car last ). She's also asked ' where's baby ' when he's not around. I would like her to be interested in ' helping ' more, as I know toddlers like that- but she basically likes to help when she likes to help, rather than being asked ! That's her all over ! Same as when you ask her about numbers or colours etc, she only tells you sometimes. She's not a performance monkey type child.

See... now I definitely think you're describing my toddler @toddlerdrama ! They definitely sound very similar.

My 2 year old ONLY listens when we tell him to stop when it's something dangerous. Almost like he can sense our tone 😅 (he's a cautious chap). Otherwise, he doesn't care if we say no, try to distract, raise our voice. He'll look us dead in the eye and do it anyway while laughing.

And he's actually quite a tame toddler. So yeah, your DD seems normal to me

IIRC mine would do it now and then, but I usually found that a very stern and scary NO! would stop it.

TBH I don’t believe in talking sweetly and reasonably when they’re deliberately doing what they’ve already been told (nicely) not to. Once they’re old enough to understand, that is.

They need to know that you mean it.

From a purely personal perspective- my 2 would always mess around more and ignore me when I was on the phone or had visitors here! It’s like they sense that you actually would like them to behave so do the complete opposite. My dc are older now and it’s not a problem so I wouldn’t stress too much. Be firm and don’t back down.

I think you should always be aware that she's Grandma and from this point onwards she's going to start scoring points off you. She'll soon start saying things like; "See, she listens to me, but she doesn't listen to you."

Don't be surprised if you catch her in a corner with your child, whispering things like, "Who do you love more, grandma or mummy?"

She'll criticise the nutrition you give your child all while plying her with cakes and sweets on the sly.

Motherhood is extremely competitive. But you can keep her in check by reminding her how completely dysfunctional you turned out. 😉

Distraction techniques work well with littlies. Does your dd have her own ‘baby’? Ie a doll with accessories. Perhaps you could encourage her to copy what you’re doing.

As for locking in the bathroom, I agree with a pp that this suggestion is moronic. Not only is this risky but it could traumatise your dd. It would have done with my dd at this age and she freaked at time out. As for drowning in the loo, there was a thread the other day, where a poster said a relative died as a child when his mum answered the door. The mum was making something with tomatoes in a big vat and the little boy climbed onto the table and was found dead upside down in the vat.

To the best of my memory too, two year-olds, and a bit older , will look for your attention when you're trying to tak on the phone! Sounds normal to me, your reaction sounds fine. I'd say your mother just does not remember everything!

Is she a bit jealous of her sibling, OP? Sometimes young children just want your attention and they don't care whether it's good or bad attention, they just want it on them!

Also, if she's behaving well at nursery then that means she's testing boundaries at home, where she feels safe to do so.

That said, if you haven't got a behaviour system in place it would be a good idea to start one now.

Sounds perfectly normal as a 2.5 year old.

your mum sounds a bit of a plonker tbh with rose tinted specs. Mine can be the same. I bet you also had your moments at that age!

It sounds a fair bit like the 'terrible twos' but at the same time, are there appropriate consequences being given? She shouldn't be allowed to throw things at you, for example. If she does that, there has to be a consequence ('time out' or something).

Also while not listening to you in that scenario is just aggravating, not listening in another situation can be dangerous. If she runs toward danger and doesn't listen when you shout her back, this could be a nightmare. If she's not listening, there needs to be a simple warning and then a consequence. It'll take a bit of time but she'll eventually get the message that some behaviours aren't acceptable.

She says I'm dysfunctional because of myself. She taught be well apparently and I messed it up myself when I moved away from her hahahaha

I think the best thing you can do is just ignore her when she starts going on

It sounds like it’s early days for your newly configured family. You at least had some idea of how life would be with a new baby but it sounds like your DD is still in the very early stages of coming to terms with her totally changed circumstances.

Your toddler sounds as though she can be really sweet with your newborn. I’m sure you’re giving lots of praise when she helps, “well done xxx that’s great helping” etc. It’s also worth saying (in front of your DD) especially to Grandma but also when her dad comes home, about how helpful and kind she has been. It’s an indirect way of praising your DD again.

Basically lots of praise when she’s doing something you want her to and distraction when she’s not!

Grandma could play a very positive role here with her DGD, she needs to be encouraged to do so!!

yup she's still very little, and possibly regressing slightly due to baby sib (which is SUPER common) basically you pay attention to baby therefore if I am more like a baby you will pay more attention to me.
A super cheery "Hi there button!" when she enters the room followed up with a positive "Come here and talk to me whilst I do this then would you like to do a jigsaw or have a story?"

It isn't meant to sound critical at all but her doing what you tell her is still super dependent on her wanting to do what you tell her. So make it super cheery, you like her, you're happy to see her, you're happy she's around; and reward her with attention when she DOES DO what you've asked rather than when she doesn't. Ask for help you don't even need e.g. would you please pass me (x) and then give her tons of praise when she does.

It isn't too early to start a calm down step / chair / spot system but remember the key point is the conversation afterwards - loving calm what wasn't ok what you want her to do instead. I did this very gently "Do you want to go to the calm down chair?" (DS choosing to because he/I/we were getting upset?) followed by "Are you ready to talk about it now?" I had plinkly plonky calm videos he watched whilst sat in his chair.

This is good advice. Positive instructions are more useful than negative ones, so 'walking please' instead of 'don't run', for example. But its not 100% effective because you have a 2yo, and they have talked about the Terrible Twos at least since the 1990s and likely before.

No harm to your mum but she sounds like a bit of a knob. The proof of good parenting isn't the behaviour of a toddler, it's much later in the parent/child relationship between adults. (Generally speaking).

would agree with mothers of mothers and the point scoring...

also sometimes grandmas remember things with rose tinted glasses...also sometimes advice has been updated since their kids were born...example putting kids to sleep on their front was advised, not it isn't...

I have watched it , a lot ! I was convinced that I was going to do the same. I like how you call it the thinking step. But then I wasn't sure if it's really the right way. I think for really naughty behaviour, it's probably the only way. I have tried a couple of times. The other thing I do is give warnings that I'll take something away.. for example if she's just messing up her food on purpose i ask her to stop or say no, we don't play with food like that , it's making a mess. If she ignores it, I'll give her a warning that I'll take it if she continues..
If she then continues, I take it away. She then cries and I cuddle her and tell her that I understand she's upset she couldn't continue playing the way she liked and it's making her sad now. That kind of thing..

When our parents were bringing us up, you got a smacked behind for non-compliance. They may have been mums for longer, but that doesn't mean they know better!
My son is 9 now and it's been a wonderful and challenging journey learning children are their own selves- with their own personalities, funny quirks, defiance, and beautiful behaviour too. You know your child best. Be consistent, don't sweat the small stuff and laugh to yourself at times. All kids are wild. Learn to ignore people who think they know better- selective memory is a thing!

My 2.5 is being quite challenging lately also. We've definitely hit the 'terrible twos'. I have a particular face I use when I'm not happy with something and my voice changes and when I do these two things (without raising my voice/shouting) he understands I'm not very happy with him and usually he will look at me side eyed and cry or sometimes stop. But not sure what to do beyond this as I don't even know if he really comprehends consequences at this stage? They are all about bushing boundaries at this stage and pushing our buttons! When he's having a full blown tantrum, honestly nothing works except just letting him get it out of his system, and once he's starting to slow down then I just get down to his level and will distract him with something else. Or a cuddle. Grandma's definitely have rose tinted glasses looking back to when they raised children. Honestly it's easily to forget. You're doing well. It's not easy with a new baby and toddler

Your DD wants her mums full attention, your changing babies nappy and on the phone. So she found a way to get your attention on her, she doesn’t care if the attention is bad (being shouted at) it’s better than nothing! I think her behaviour is normal and your mums discipline suggestions are Ill informed.

I agree with this. My DCs (4 and 3) sometimes need to be asked something repeatedly in different ways before it clicks, and that is totally normal I think. But throwing something at a person??? That is not how we treat people. I would definitely impose consequences. My DD tried hitting me a couple of times at 2.5. A 2-minute time out sorted out that behaviour after the first couple of instances. Hitting (or throwing things) is really not ok.

@UpToMyElbowsInDiapers I agree it's totally unacceptable of her to do that. I will try a time out next time she does it. I don't disagree that I'm not firm enough.