Please give it to me straight

[toddlerdrama]

I'm wondering if you think a two and a half year old should listen when being told NOT to do something ?

Do/did yours stop doing whatever they're doing when told to stop ?

Would they listen and stop some of the time ? But other times not ?

I keep having this argument with my mum, who tells me my DD is extremely badly behaved. I've asked questions around this on here before, under different names and I pretty much always get the response that it's normal.

I'll give you the latest example.. yesterday while talking to my mum on speaker phone, whilst also changing my newborn, my DD walked in and tried to push over the little trolley containing all his carefully folded clothes. I told her to come over to look at something, she ignored me and kept trying to push the trolley over. I then started saying STOP, don't do that, don't push the trolley etc. she kept ignoring me and kept trying. I then started raising my voice, at which point she eventually threw something at me in defiance, but did eventually stop.

All the while my mum was on the phone and absolutely shocked that DD didn't listen. She was like, I can't believe she doesn't listen to you at all. It's incredible, she's so naughty, this child OMG Blabla bla bla.

Please give it to me straight. Is my mum right ? Is she so badly behaved ? What can I do differently? We are due to see my mum for a few weeks now and I'm worried she will keep telling me how terrible my child is. I know she's not easy, but I kind of thought it's normal for her age. She's at nursery, where apparently they don't have any concerns, generally speaking.

Should I be disciplining another way ? I generally try to distract and explain and then I end up shouting sometimes. If she's upset because she can't do something I'm always there to comfort her. My mum says we should just leave her. In fact, she told me put her in the bathroom yesterday and close the door as a punishment. I am absolutely shocked and would never do that.

While writing this, I realise that the fact she wanted me to put her in the bathroom, kind of discredits any opinions she has...

It really really does. How ? Naughty step ?

Ok you need to knock this on the head. It's not ok. You firmly hold her hands and say NO. She might be acting out to the new baby as well. Just reinforce being firm.

It really really does. How ? Naughty step ?

For every object thrown at me, I'd bin a toy.

Completely normal. They don't really understand consequences at that age. Your mother sounds awful.

I wouldnt even consider softer discipline like time out until at the very least 3.5years old but that's very much dependent on the Child. 1 year older is a lot.

My DS wouldn’t have done it at that age, for a couple of reasons-

i didn’t have my hands full with a younger child so he was generally centre of attention and didn’t need to attract my attention (not a criticism just a fact).

If he had thrown something at me in defiance he would have been on the naughty step v. Fast!

But I appreciate you had your mum on the phone and a baby mid nappy change so my reality isn’t yours.

@WimpoleHat I usually really tell her off when she does it. And explain she could hurt someone etc. it doesn't really work right now.

Some DC are far more compliant than others.

How much of this current behaviour is jealousy over the newborn and you being so knackered it's hard to be positive and proactively in stuff?

My little boy is 26 months and an only child so cant quite comment on looking for attention when your with the other child. He does on occasion (who am i kidding is mostly) not listen to me. He will throw things across the room namely toys when playing with them but never at me. I think her throwing it at you as a deliberate attempt to show she is in charge almost. Agree you shouldnt put her in the bathroom but definitely a consequence of some sort. Im trying the naughty corner with my son but it isnt working he now smiles happily walking into it and just doesnt care. Hes currently seeing a child play therapist to help with speech and frustration and she has recommeded i raise my hand and say stop in a firm tone, no more. It seems to be working for me although when he doesnt get his own way he can try saying it back to me 🤣 aw the daily struggles ey. I believe if they understand what your saying (which they do and they just chose to ignore it) then they know the difference in right and wrong and are therefore being naughty as such. All kids will act up and push boundaries but if it happens alot i would be saying you need to tty a different approach to her behaviour

I would say it was also like this before to be honest ! Maybe a tiny bit worse now.

Nursery practitioner here. I don't have kids of my own but I work with toddlers of your dd's age. Trust me, very few of them listen to what they are told 🤣

There are days I want to tear my hair out because little Jonny won't stop using the comfy area as soft play, or little Delilah has discovered the joy that throwing lego across the room brings.

All normal toddler behaviour. Your dd is just displaying typical behaviour of her age group. Yes, it's frustrating and you must do all you can to stop yourself from downing a bottle of scotch in one go, but it's not bad behaviour, it's just being a 2 year old.

They are sent to try us 😵

I'd say it's normal.

My DC very very rarely threw stuff in defiance but I know lots other kids for whom it is the default for them.

Oh they often play up in pregnancy too as they know something new and uncertain is going on and people go on and on about this "baby".

TBH with the usual 2-3 year age gap it's not great timing from the toddlers point of view 🤣

Mostly they do but every now and again they get the devil in them and refuse to listen. They're 19 months so not quite 2 yet. But I think that is because if they don't stop, I make them stop and there is a consequence. They do understand cause and effect to a certain degree.

So if I say stop kicking that shelf and they don't listen, I will go and remove them and they have to sit in the trolley seat instead. They hate the trolley seat and prefer to toddle about on their reins. So 75% of the time they do listen if I'm firm.

In this situation I would take her with me and give a job to do hold the new nappy etc.
Shes pushing things over for a reaction.
Tricky as you had your hands full so unable to remove her.
If a trolley can be tipped/ pushed over I dont think its safe around young children.
Anything thrown is removed and a firm no we dont throw.
When asking to do things , move to get her shoes, take her to the loo, put her at the table so words and actions match.
My parents would be outraged and ridiculous when my DC ever misbehaved but quite frankly they were hyper critical, parents and I grew up terrified to bloody breathe.

And please don't listen to your mum! Locking a child in a room is abusive and will do nothing to sort out the issue.

I honestly despair people who want to punish 2 year olds. They are so tiny ffs. And still learning. I'm a believer in positive reinforcement. So praise the nice things your dd does, give her opportunities to help you around the house and help with the baby. It will make her feel included. Also, give her controlled choices eg " shall we tidy up our toys before or after breakfast?". That way you are giving her a choice and she doesn't feel like she is being pushed around, so more inclined to listen.

I don't think there's any point binning a toy. She's not going to understand that binning a toy is a consequence. It's too disconnected. She's 2.

Some DCs respond to removal of items or going to sit quietly - it's about regulating emotions rather than punishment. Some DCs respond to rewards. You need to work out which your DD is. If she's reward oriented then saying 'let's do this with gentle hands and then we'll play a game/go for a walk, etc'

If she's a throwing/hitting DC then sometimes it helps to give them a space to do that so a little play tent with a pillow they can throw or hit; or a place for ball games. Again, it all depends on your DC.

I have a 2.5 year old daughter and no, she doesn't usually seem to understand the word 'no'. I've tried guiding her gently away from what she's doing and distracting her but at the first available opportunity she will be back doing that same thing again. I've tried to show her what 'no' means and by that I mean taking her hands away from the thing I don't want her to do. I've also tried raising my voice but I really don't like shouting at her when she's still practically a baby who is testing boundaries. I only usually shout if she is in danger, ie has found something which could harm her and I'm across the other side of the room. Quickly attracting her attention in the couple of seconds it takes to reach her to ensure she is safe.

Sometimes it feels like she is hellbent on destroying things or trying to injure herself indirectly and NOTHING I say or do has any impact. I sometimes think 'go on then, do it because you're determined and won't listen to me anyway' but yet at the same time, Hell will freeze over before I stand back and willingly allow her to cause herself harm whilst I stand and do nothing.

I agree it's bloody hard at times.

All two year olds push boundaries at times. It's how they learn. They also don't have the emotional regulation that adults have to can't express themselves very well, so being 'naughty' is a way they get our attention (and they can be very good at it!). I always go with the distraction method and reward positive behaviour. I struggle to completely ignore the behaviour I don't want to see but I keep in mind she is very little and I need to pick my battles!

Your mum isn't being fair. It's INCREDIBLY hard looking after a toddler and a newborn (I don't know this yet - I am 7 months pregnant though!). I have no idea how I'll cope until we bring the baby home. I just know it's going to be very hard at times and your mum being harsh isn't helping you whatsoever.

Next time your mum tells you how 'naughty' your toddler is, ask her honestly for advice on how to handle that specific behaviour. If your mum thinks she can do a better job, get her to enlighten you. Criticising your parenting and/or making such frequent comments on your child's behaviour isn't in any way helpful.

Be calm, be patient, be consistent and stick to the boundaries you set for your child. Little ones need consistency and need to know where they stand in terms of their actions causing a response.

Do not EVER shut your child in the bathroom as punishment. They are potentially dozens of dangers in a bathroom (like bleach and cleaning products, not to mention water, dirty toilet brush, an open window, stuff like that). The results could be catastrophic and your child won't learn from it anyway.

Worst case scenario I guess is the 'naughty step'. Bottom step on the stairs, sit for 30-60 seconds at first whilst you explain gently why she is there. Cuddles and soothing words afterwards. I know the 'naughty step' is controversial but it's got to be better than parents getting so frustrated and worked up that they end up shouting or snapping.

I think you're doing a good job. Being a mum is hard. You're probably extra tired with a newborn as well. Take it easy. You're not alone feeling like this and it will get better!

I think a lot of it is in the delivery. Does it sound like an instruction that has to be followed, or are you coaxing and pleading? Eavesdrop on childcare providers if you can, there's often a certain authority in their voice. Similar with consequences, they don't have to be extreme - a PP's 5 minutes without a toy is a nice suggestion - just consistently followed through.

I don't think so.

DD wasn't destructive or intrigued by things, she would stop if requested.

DS was destructive and determined deterring him was like physically pushing a house.

It depends on the child.

but did eventually stop

So she does do what she's told eventually.

My child doesn't stop until he's fully done what he's been told not to do.

Locking a toddler in the bathroom is moronic. They could fall and smack their head on tiles. They could drink some shampoo. They could stick their head in the toilet and drown (yeah yeah I know it's highly unlikely.)

My oldest is 2y10m. At two and a half, I was despairing of his behaviour, but I don't think the naughty step would have worked. It's only really the past month that I've tried it and it's really helping give him pause for thought.

His behaviour has improved as I've been quite stern, not let him have treats if he doesn't behave etc, but I hate doing it. For us, the issue is I'm on my own with two little ones and the oldest didn't have the language he needed to understand what it was I wanted him to stop doing, until recently.

We've got very simple understanding now of "no! Not safe!" or "out of the kitchen" or similar short phrases but it's still not 100% consistent and I don't expect it to be for a while TBH.

Your mum probably forgot what it was like to have a two-year-old. She's a work in progress, and will get there when she gets there, and it sounds like you're doing great. The only thing I would say is the PP's suggestion to distract her and grandma with each other while you're doing a nappy change is a great idea. Your attention was split three ways and your mum was as much of the problem at that moment as the toddler was.

Oh ignore your DM too.

Everyone remembers things differently I'm sure her 2 y.o's back then played up.

Nope, she’s just two. Some kids are less pliant than others, especially now we don’t use child abuse as discipline. It makes them excellent leaders, trailblazers and all round amazing adults who change the world. Especially girls. Embrace it, teach her good values and she’ll be awesome.

Bloody exhausting to parent, though. Ask me how I know!!

No their impulse control is not great at 2.5!

Google Janet Lansbury 'Unruffled'. It is a gamechanger.