Forest school only for 'select' children

[Eyelashesrgreat]

Ds in Y3 and his school have recently 'selected' children from his class to go to forest school. The children do this weekly whilst the other children have to stay at school and do work. The children (selected) get to wear their own clothes that day and have treats.

The school did the same thing last year and ds wasn't chosen then. Ds has had a really difficult time recently at school and would have loved to have been selected for this activity. I asked his teacher if all the children will eventually get their turn at the forest school but she has said only certain children can go. AIBU to think this is a bit unfair?

@manicflamingo😎 I’m assuming you aren’t one of our school governors! Ours all seem to understand that one of our children needs extra sessions with a very caring counselling trained TA. Her father passed away suddenly and violently at Easter. The family is not poor - in fact his forethought ensured they are actually rather well off BUT a 7 year old girl has lost her Dad and needs care and understanding from someone not involved. It’s not about physically equipping her, it’s about emotionally equipping her.

Another friend is a secondary school teacher. She was incredibly proud that an ex-pupil swam for the UK in the Tokyo Olympics.

That pupil trained for several hours every school day, and had special permission to eat in class because that was the only way they could get enough calories for the training they were doing.

Obviously that was 'unfair' for the pupils who were not allowed to eat in class...

My youngest is struggling with pre-school, suspected ASD but no diagnosis yet. Being carried in screaming if we can get them into the nursery at all. It’s not the nursery itself before anyone leaps in on that detail. Really challenging as myself and DH work and it’s been such a struggle on top of their (and our) poor sleep. The nursery have a forest garden where they make sure there’s a space each day - to try and give the routine and because it’s quieter outside so less sensory issues. This has been an absolute godsend and I’m so grateful.

I’d be devastated if another parent thought this was unfair and would rather we received no support at all just to keep things “equal”. I’d give anything for my child to run in happily and not need extra support. I’m so worried about how school will go next year and one of these worries is parents getting uptight about children who need extra support getting extra support, because “but my little Johnny would like that too” even if they may not need it.

Education should be equitable for all, that means all children have the same opportunity to fulfil their potential - some children need more support and nurturing in an educational setting than others, in order to achieve this.

Oh come on, give it just a tiny bit of thought. You know what people choose to tell about themselves. You know what gossips with nothing better to do have whispered to you. You do NOT know everything, by a long shot.

My daughter went on a “select” school trip. She he no idea why she was chosen, and what the criteria was, but when she got there she realised they were all children who access the support base in the school for one reason or another. I’m sure kids look at her making things look so easy despite being disabled and wonder why she’d get this treat, but she has had a hell of a year and it was really good for her to let off some steam away from school.

People are rarely as straightforward as it seems, but if you genuinely have an issue with the school and believe there is something going on, raise it. Or move schools.

Absolutely understand as an adult the difference between equality and equity as an adult,however I think it's a bit sad all these virtue signalling adults so keen to sneer and besmirch kids for not 'getting this' at a young age and hoping they are upset and hurt at not getting access to things "because now you know what it's like".

That's just mean and takes away from you trying to show how much better you seem to think you are.

Too much adults there (long day!)

How can anyone learn empathy if you shield them from ever experiencing disappointment, exclusion, or inequality? I think it’s an excellent thing for children to be treated differently to each other.

At my husband's school whole classes go out but in groups.They have staff trained up who do the sessions.
I don't think all yr groups do it but for those yr groups that do, ALL the children take part.

Personally I don't see a Forest School provision as the same as a 1:1 intervention for a child who has suffered a specific trauma. I would completely support that. Children who had not experienced that or other significiant trauma would not require that intervention/support. My view is that Forest School is an educational opportunity that is likely to benefit every pupil who experiences it- noting the broad success of such programmes in Scandanavian countries. There fore I think if a school sets up a Forest School it should, ideally, be available to all pupils with the focus on extra support being offer to ensure that all can access it fairly.

I'm not commenting on the accuracy of what Op claims to have been told. I'm commenting on the repeated claims that the SENCO could be disciplined or even lose their job.

Would you apply that logic to other interventions?

DD and another girl get taught maths separately a couple of times per week for various reasons. I am sure that individual attention would benefit all pupils. So you are saying DD shouldn't get the support she needs because others (who are able to learn in the main class) don't get that?

manicflamingo

Our school buys it in for a small group. No way would there be the time or money for the whole school to do it. There are many interventions that would benefit all in school. Outside of school some kids miss out on many beneficial experiences others take for granted.

If anyone feels their child's needs are not being met in school, then raise that with the school. Push for a formal assessment if you think it is needed.

DD was an in year move to her current school, her previous one wasn't interested in understanding or meeting her needs.

Current school did 6 hours of assessments before she started, she had a personalized timetable from day one, plus identified adults who spent time building a relationship with her. They started the EHCP process after half a term, which involved a bundle of evidence from the school plus various specialist assessments. It was approved at the highest level of funding within 6 months.

This is an ordinary state school (in financial terms), made extraordinary by their ethos.

But please stop complaining about the provision other children get to meet their needs. If your child doesn't need 'interventions' to learn then congratulations, they are ahead of DD and numerous other children in their opportunities and life chances.

@manicflamingo😎 i got the impression the children were going to a Forest school provision, not an area in the school dedicated to Forest school. Yes, if a school has a trained Forest school teacher and an area in the school grounds I would expect most pupils to have access, but if a school was using an external provider then funds would probably make it more likely to be used for intervention purposes.

As your time as a governor have you not seen some pupils have reduced timetables in the school with maybe a day a
week at Forest School or similar Provision to help them access education and reduce the chance of them being a school refuser for example

I interpreted the original post as that school had set up a Forest School not that they were accessing a Forest School provision elsewhere. The latter is very different. I have seen, and do support different approaches to learning, timetables and support offered to individual children based on what they need. I also think if a school invests in having a Forest School (actually on their site) it should be for everyone at the school (not necessarily in equal time measures)- because it has been shown to have such broad benefits and because it is a huge financial investment.

I think we agree then in fact?

That's different to how I understood the OP's situation - I am saying if a school invests in establishing a Forest School on their site everyone should have the opportunity to access it (this might be for differing amounts of sessions).

If a school dedicates part of its's budget to sending smaller specifically identified pupils to an external FS provision - or buys in for that same group for specific reasons that's different.

This is bullshit. Inclusion involves providing what SEN children need in order to level the playing field. Do you want the hearing loop, the guide dog, the wheelchair because it should be every child or none? No, just the stuff that looks fun? Forest School is an intervention for those that need it. You don't need to know why they need it.

OP, I teach at a small school in an affluent area. Many parents are nosy and entitled, and question everything. They think they know everything but know very little. You don't know everything about these children or their families. I cba listing all of the needs and vulnerabilities in our school that nobody would ever know about. All your griping will do is wear down the staff and make them want to stop Forest school altogether. Maybe you would be happier if nobody went, so little caspian didn't have to see someone getting something he can't have. Please do look for another school, we'll hear the collective sighs of relief from here.

They can't reveal the criteria without breaking confidentiality. They have wrongly assumed that right-thinking parents will be able to read between the lines.

Please do look for another school, we'll hear the collective sighs of relief from here.

yep, my experience of village school hell.

Do you not care that her child is unhappy and not thriving at school? I ask, because with my daughter I genuinely think they didn’t.

You need to take a long hard look at yourself.

As numerous people have said, if the OP's child's needs are not being met then take that up with the school.

But the focus of her initial post was that it isn't 'fair' that some children go to Forest School and her child doesn't.

This is true. I have a child who cannot participate in normal child hood things..... riding a bike, going on sleepovers without me, swimming, many many school trips (all the funs one like the sailing or camping) etc etc etc.

He has one thing at school he can do as part of a therapy programme. I would be a bit pissed off (but not surprised) if an entitled parent thought 'why should he get this and not my child' when my child gets barely any of the good stuff. This weekend and every school holiday I see his classmates on facebook doing amazing things - holidays, Duke of Edinburgh, whatever it is and my child cannot access that sort of thing - possibly ever.

So yes DS gets to go to a special and fun club once a week. But do you want his skin issues, his allergies, his autism, his cognitive delays, his meltdowns because he can't cope with a full school day, his medical issues that mean he needs overnight monitoring?

Welcome to swap.

I don't particularly care because I don't know op or her child. I know her whining about the fact he doesn't get to do Forest school probably leaves him feeling hard-done-to and like he's missing out, so won't be helping. I'd care if he was in my school of course. Had op come on to ask for advice about how to support her son, I'd have responded accordingly. But she didn't do that did she.

Please ignore the usual virtue signalling idiots on here OP.
of course you are not unreasonable to think it’s unfair. All reception kids go to forest school in my children’s school. They go in small groups supported by a TA.

and the people saying do you not agree with extra maths or counselling sessions then are either being deliberately disingenuous or are thick as shit? Just ignore the utter bilge spouting from their mouths.