Forest school only for 'select' children

[Eyelashesrgreat]

Ds in Y3 and his school have recently 'selected' children from his class to go to forest school. The children do this weekly whilst the other children have to stay at school and do work. The children (selected) get to wear their own clothes that day and have treats.

The school did the same thing last year and ds wasn't chosen then. Ds has had a really difficult time recently at school and would have loved to have been selected for this activity. I asked his teacher if all the children will eventually get their turn at the forest school but she has said only certain children can go. AIBU to think this is a bit unfair?

OFSTED will be asking where the children are if there are some offsite. If they can link the ones suddenly being offsite to ones with behavioural issues then I bet there will be questions asked

I’m actually pretty horrified about random parents helping in the office and the information they’re getting hold of…..

Im an advocate for every child in my class. The child with diagnosed autism, the child with undiagnosed but potential signs of autism, the one showing clear signs of dyspraxia, the one receiving speech therapy, the ones who are surrounded by support to do well, the ones who are not, the children who do their best each day and the ones who have no motivation. The children who's parents have separated, the anxious, the over confident, the completely undisciplined, those who are EAL….and those who just carry on.

One of my PSHE intervention groups were playing Buckeroo and Uno the other day and came back to the literacy lesson and caused a flurry “that’s not fair” comments amongst the rest. I explained that it wasn’t just about playing, so there was no need for their comments, and believe me that group will also have to catch up in a different way with the work (true, I had to spread the missed lesson out under the guise of “extension” to cover it). Children won’t grasp why some children are removed for added extras or interventions and will go home and say they are missing out, and yes many need to learn that they have a serious advantage already and basically shouldn’t want to qualify for these groups / trips etc.

We operate a Draw and Talk club for which we invite children to who are going through something like divorce or bereavement. We’ve had complaints that other children are missing out on this “art club”. I get it, parents won’t realise it’s purpose and think they’re child who loves to paint can’t join in. It greatly benefits the children who do go. Maybe others would also benefit but not everyone can and we also use feedback like this to see how to meet others needs too.

This is why the OP needs to find out the reasoning behind the choosing. Is it PP funded? Is it for SEND children? Is it to aid listening skills and communication? Is it just a great extra for children that could benefit the most in various ways? Is it for those they school feel have worked hardest? Is it for high achievers? Is it an award for achievement and effort? Is it completely funded by the PA and random? Forest school can really benefit so many children which is why I would also be a bit upset in this situation if something that ran throughout the year couldn’t be split to give everyone a go because this particular activity is so broad . But OP needs to ask the question.

Op hasn't explicitly said that the SENCO told her who the children are. She stated that the SENCO had told her the number of SEND children in the school. It's highly likely that in a small school it's no secret which children are SEND, it might even be obvious.

No SENCO would be sacked for saying what percentage, or what number of children in the school are SEND.

She has also said that she has been told there are only 2 pupils with special needs in the whole school. Given the national average is 15% of students having special needs unless it’s a very very small school I just don’t believe that. Even a school with only 20 pupils that would be significantly below abweage

So is it obvious to parents on the school gate which children have dyslexia and need additional intervention? Not all children with SEN are the badly behaved ones that many parents gossip about on the school gate and want out of the school

Plenty of school staff are crap at keeping their mouths shut. I've heard all sorts from TAs, governors and teachers at our school. Numbers of kids with SEN, specifics of a child's SEN, issues with parents, the works. People forget who they are talking to for a second, they forget you as a parent know the context of some anecdote they give and that you are able to work out what or who they are referring to.

There is a simple way to deal with the issue of things funded by pupil premium. Which is to use it how it was intended, to enable pp children to access what others get, not to separate them further from peers by offering separate activities. So offer the forest school, charge most parents, and fund PP recipient children with their PP.

This is what my school does.

@Walkaround my son has ms and Dan have meltdowns school didn’t ask me to keep him off as I think they’d know the response they’d get. They asked a friend to keep her autistic daughter off abs she refused and reported them to ofsted inspector, she got the best support at school thst day she’d ever had, but quite a few parents did keep children off as it’s dressed up as the school doing you a favour as it will be a stressful day for the child with ofsted being in

• my son has asd and had meltdowns at school thst should say

So is it obvious to parents on the school gate which children have dyslexia and need additional intervention?

Of course it is, not the specifics of course but its clear some kids are having "interventions". Children talk about what happens in school. Even my 5 year old tells me x, y and z go out with TA on Tuesday morning. Then perhaps I'm friends with y's mum who tells me y has x need and is having extra help in a group on a tuesday. It's not a massive leap then to guess that x & z may have similar difficulties, especially if your child also spots that z finds maths hard or x hates reading.

No SENCO would be sacked for saying what percentage, or what number of children in the school are SEND.

Our senco has told me before that we have v low % of SEN across school.

It's easy to work out who has SEN in DS class - the parents are open about it. It's a small school and we know all the kids well too so it's pretty easy to see some things on playdates - one kid has a really obvious communication delay.

@AliMonkey they may or may not know, certainly not from me. I suppose his classmates may tell their parents that their is a kid who doesn't talk or doesn't talk alot, I assume they would just think he was shy. I personally had never heard of SM until we started going through it with my son.

In terms of party invites, the only ones he feels confident enough to go to are the ones where it is an organised event where they can go off and play together while the parents have a pot of tea so I am not sure it will go noticed but perhaps I am being naive.

Even if other parents think a child may have additional needs that doesn’t mean they know the full ins and outs. Even if the parents talk to you about it you may not know the full details!

I'd like to know where this utopia is where no one has any issues going on apart from those that are so minor that they are happy to share all intimate details with the entire community. Must be a very happy place. Sounds too good to be true ....

Posh home counties villages..... basically no financial or social deprivation, low rates of divorce & separation so very few blended families, little stress etc. Also tight knit communities where you know all the parents of the children in your child's class, fairly well, because they are your friends and neighbours.

I would imagine that in that utopia there are plenty of families who are pretending all is amazing for fear of judgement from
other “perfect” families

our local primaries have a phonic scheme where they all go off in groups with a TA. Does that mean all these children have SEN?

Some children are having catch up intervention due to not doing much work (for a variety of reasons) during lockdown. Does this mean they all have SEN?

As a school governor I am appalled by this. A major educational opportunity should be inclusive and offered to all pupils in a cohort (not necessary at the same time time depending on class size etc) the extra assistance for disadvantaged children should be the school providing for example wellies and waterproofs so they have the same starting point to access the educational opportunity. Find the equalities statement on the website and speak to your child's teacher or a member of the Senior Leadership Team.

As a school governor, how will it be funded?

I’m so horrified a school governor could say or think that.😱😢

As a school governor I am appalled by this. A major educational opportunity should be inclusive and offered to all pupils in a cohort

As a school governor you are fundamentally opposed to evidence based, targeted interventions for children with SEMH issues or other additional support needs? As a school Safeguarding Lead, I find that apalling and would not work for a school where the governing body held such views.

This.

Have been so shocked by this thread I have made a Mumsnet account to comment.

My teen DD is adopted and has numerous diagnoses as a result of her early life with her birth family, including PTSD. Struggles to learn at school because she is triggered into survival mode multiple times every day, and is exhausted by the time she gets home.

Is it 'fair' that she walks out of class whenever she wants without consequences? Shouldn't every child be allowed to walk out of class without consequences?

For DD, she hates being different. She sticks it out in class beyond what is healthy. School ENCOURAGE her to leave before she is overwhelmed and starts thinking of suicide.

If she walks out of class she goes to one of her specified adults, talks the situation through, has space to calm down, and they also support her to make up whatever she has missed by leaving the class.

Equality is NOT about every child being treated the same.

A friend's daughter has a full time 1:1 TA. How unfair is that? If one child has 1:1 adult, every child should have a 1:1adult.

Except my friend's daughter has a genetic condition that results in physical and learning disabilities. She is unlikely to live beyond her late teens/early 20s, and will never live independently.

If your child is struggling at school and needs more support then go in there and advocate for them.

But resenting the additional help available to children who are facing huge barriers that truly are unfair is incredibly selfish.

It isn't fair that DD's life has been changed for the worse by the abuse she experienced. It isn't fair that my friend's DD has disabilities and a life limiting genetic condition. Would you want to swap? Not only the pain of seeing what your child has to live with, but also the impact on your own life in meeting your child's needs?

Some people need to understand the difference between equality and equity…

ladydanbury I posted similar picture earlier in the thread. But the “all children must be treated exactly the same” crew sadly aren’t interested. Obviously can’t look beyond their own child

@manicflamingo😎

do you understand anything at all about disadvantage?

Disadvantage is not just about economic disadvantage.
I didn’t need schoo to provide my son with wellies and a waterproofs - I can afford those myself.
But the idea that giving a child a pair of wellies and waterproofs would give him and the kids like him the same starting point is laughable and quite frankly demonstrates a staggering lack of understanding.

This thread is exactly why I’m so glad I’ve managed to get my autistic child into a specialist school and he’s longer in mainstream , he now gets all the interventions he needs about managing emotions social situations etc, things that come naturally to other children so they don’t need specific lessons without some other parent wittering on that it’s not fair