To feel that the way we look after the elderly in this country is downright disgusting

[Besswess88]

My NDN are 90 and 93. They have no children and they own their own home.

She is my friend really despite the age difference and we have good, deep chats. She has never been in love, never been aboard and was born in 1935 and was illegitimate (as were both my parents).

I go in regularly, obviously did their shopping throughout the pandemic, help them out now they don’t have a car, go in for a chat etc etc, just neighbourly stuff.

I got age concern involved who put them in touch with amazing service from Sainsburys who allow vulnerable people with no internet to phone through their order for free delivery and persuaded her to get some help 5 days a week (but they are just doing lunch and cleaning the kitchen floor as far as I can see for bloody £25 an hour - and I keep trying to persuade her to let them help with his personal care).

He is blind and deaf and doubly incontinent and wearing pads. They share a bed and he will go into the bathroom and take the pad off flinging it everywhere, stepping in it etc and not realising. Adult social care have told her she should sell up and buy a bungalow. He is/was a huge hoarder and most of the house cannot be used because of this and I will not go in and try to “take over” and make her try to do this. She is an intelligent women who is capable of making her own decisions.

Adult social care banged on about the risk of a fire. They have lived there like that for 50 years with no fucking fire.

If they didn’t own their own home they would get so much more support and not have to face the prospect of selling up aged 90 to fund their own care?! m

She is lifting him about and cleaning up after him, he feels awful, she is exhausted. I do what I can without taking over.

Surely we are better than this?

I'm not really clear what the situation is? This is a married couple?

I'm not a huge fan of the inheritance lottery whereby some families inherit a million quid because their parents bought a house in the 1960s and died of cancer aged 75 and others don't because their parents rented or developed dementia.

However in this case, given that they have no children, and apparently no relatives close enough to help them, I can't see that it would be a tragedy if the value of their house was used to give them lots of high quality personal care.

They are a married couple.

Its not about money. It’s about the fact that she is not capable of putting the house on the market, clearing out his hoarding and he refuses to go into a home. There is absolutely no support for her all at from the public sector, and I work in the public sector, other than me.

If they didn’t own their own home they would get so much more support and not have to face the prospect of selling up aged 90 to fund their own care?!
Why shouldn’t they pay towards it if they have money though? Most of the house can’t be used, it is a waste and could go towards paying for the resources they clearly need.
As for never having a fire before, 50 years ago they weren’t forgetful with limited mobility?

Are they married? Or friends?

Why isn’t she capable of putting the house on the market?

I don't know what the answer is OP but thank god they have you

They can sell their home and fund private car that way?

who do you expect to pay for elderly care.. the tax payer?

I understand it’s frustrating and I’m sure there are lots of people in similar positions.
What do you think needs doing- social care to organise a package of care for the husband? Like 4 x daily carers? If it is a genuine fire risk they may not be allowed to care for him there. If she did want to move and was struggling this could be communicated and possibly help to clear the house? I know councils have done/do this for hoarders.
It is difficult as often people refuse care and nurses and social workers can’t force them to engage. People refuse to move from completely inappropriate housing until they literally cannot live there and end up in hospital and then in a care home against their will. It’s complicated.
If an older couple both sought help and support generally it is offered but there is an expectation people pay for this if they can to an extent including assets such as housing. I don’t disagree with this personally.

People do not have to sell their home to fund care provided in their own home. In England, where an adult with care needs owns and lives in their own home the value of the property is disregarded when their contribution to the cost of domiciliary care is assessed. This situation sounds far more like your NDN being very independent and refusing formal care, or, possibly in the case of the man, lacking awareness of the impact of caring for him on his wife? Selling up and buying a property more suitable for their needs may have been mentioned but I am certain that the assessor won't have just imparted that advice and left - there will have been a discussion about what support is needed/wanted. It's not uncommon for people to feel that they have to soldier on, or to not want strangers involved in providing personal care - I would suggest that you encourage you neighbour to refer herself back to Social Services for a carer's assessment to support her, even if husband doesn't want help himself.

I absolutely disagree that your assets should be used for your care.

@Besswess88 so you could own 3 x £1 million homes and the government should pay for your care? How is that in any way fair? Why don’t we just give every high rate tax payer full UC too?

Why? Shrouds have no pockets.

Where should the money come from? No pockets in a shroud.

Of course your assets should be used for your care. In times gone by, working people put money aside for their funeral and old age. Nowadays everyone expects a inheritance but won't look after their elderly relatives themselves either. (I do understand that this is not often possible - but you can't have it all ways)

It’s a horrible country for the elderly or disabled or children or women. So many incontinent elderly women are left to sit in their own piss for hours because the culture of greed means it’s cheaper to use pads than to catheterise.

Why shouldn’t they?

DGM’s house was sold and her bank accounts emptied to pay for her last years in a nursing home. We were pleased she was being well cared for.
Whilst I am gutted that my poor DM never got an inheritance to get her off the breadline, I still don’t agree that assets shouldn’t be used for your care.

@JazzCabbage on the point of catheters they are not necessarily a better option to be honest. CAUTI’s are incredibly common even if you use aseptic technique and care for them well and can make old people very unwell/die or cause confusion and falls. Catheters are not necessarily the answer but support with elimination and timely continence care is and that doesn’t always happen with the nhs as it is.

Part of the issue may well be that the hoarding presents a risky environment for the support workers as well. When I was in home care, we had the right to refuse to work in an environment we felt unsafe in.

There's going to be a cap anyway soon that nobody has to pay over 86 thousand In their lifetime for their care

I believe you should pay if you can. Also its in your interest too because you can select a private care home of your choice. If you don't pay you get what your given and might not be as good or you might not have a private bathroom
They government can't afford to fund everyone who needs care
Especially those with an ageing population.

We along with many other rich countries have such a messed up economy where according to the Sunday Times rich list the collective wealth of the richest 1000 people in the U.K. - many who fund the Tory party - have increased their wealth nearly by £500 billion since 2009 yet our public services are decimated.

Why not? What else will happen with the asset when they die? My nana house was sold to pay for her care home and I'm pleased it was. She didn't need the asset anymore and could use the money from it for a more comfortable and safe place to live.

If they didn’t own their own home they would get so much more support and not have to face the prospect of selling up aged 90 to fund their own care?

This is simply not true. It sounds like they are declining care from what you have written. They have a choice to make, carry on alone and struggle, accept home care, move into a care facility.

She is an intelligent women who is capable of making her own decisions. Then why is she not accepting help if she is struggling? I work with elderly people in the community every day, it can be incredibly difficult to get people to accept help even if we as HCP can see exactly what they need and would make their life infinitely better.

Yanbu. My neighbour is 96 and lives one, no children. I do her shopping and help where I can but I have a full-time job and two DC. It's very difficult to source help for her as she is physically healthy enough, no dementia but very frail and could do with a bit more support. She hasn't left her house since the start of the pandemic.

Pads are way more expensive than pads and catheters carry a huge infection risk.
There is support out there OP, your ndn can request a home and care needs assessment for them both through their gp district nurse or social services. They csn have free equipment and adaptations made to the house to make life essier. As he is blind and deaf he can access disability support and they should claim attendance and carers allowances. The house doesnt sound the safest environment for him which doesnt help. They could move into sheltered or supported extra care housing. Why cant she sell the house, there are many comminity groups who could help her. Of course its a fire risk especially with his dissbility and hosrding, the fire brigade might offer advice. Its also a falls risk. She can request a home visit and take it from there and yes they may end up paying for it but what else should they spend their money on.

This is the issue. People are incredibly bitter towards the older generation. I think you are brilliant for caring about others. My parents are between 75 and 80. Very independent but they have worked hard to have what they have. I'd like to think they have paid for their care twice over!

People are always all over the government to help more, however so far on this thread its either different opinions or double standards. I'm intrigued as to whether those who have commented so far think others (not the elderly) should recieve help?

My parents are not millionaires! Own 1 house. Worked hard and would actually like to live out their last few years in their home. Why are they less important than someone in council or social housing?

I agree that social services is really struggling at the moment. I work in a related profession and we really struggle to get referrals picked up in any kind of reasonable time frame. The cause is government cuts (or 'efficiency'). However, as previous posters have said, it sounds as if they're turning down what they are entitled to. Yes their savings (not house) will have to be used to pay for care above a certain point, sometimes this is the sticking point.

Hoarding is a recognised fire risk. However dealing with hoarding disorder is hugely difficult and requires a team of professionals to help. The fire service will do a free home visit to assess and minimise the risk.

Each working generation funds the care of their elders, with the promise of same for them.
That contract has now been broken.
Most of the younger generation will never own their own, so why should they care if someone's forced to sell their theirs after many happy years of living?
Also because, as callous as it sounds too many people are living too far beyond working age. Requiring expensive care (people with dementia for instance can have no inkling of anything happening around them but eat 3 square meals a day and live healthily for decades more).
Not to mention the forced, unpaid labour of women looking after elderly relatives, which has obviously been decimated.

Obviously broken government policy has something to account for but this is a worldwide problem... Google 'ageing population'. We're sitting on a ticking time bomb.