To feel that the way we look after the elderly in this country is downright disgusting

[Besswess88]

My NDN are 90 and 93. They have no children and they own their own home.

She is my friend really despite the age difference and we have good, deep chats. She has never been in love, never been aboard and was born in 1935 and was illegitimate (as were both my parents).

I go in regularly, obviously did their shopping throughout the pandemic, help them out now they don’t have a car, go in for a chat etc etc, just neighbourly stuff.

I got age concern involved who put them in touch with amazing service from Sainsburys who allow vulnerable people with no internet to phone through their order for free delivery and persuaded her to get some help 5 days a week (but they are just doing lunch and cleaning the kitchen floor as far as I can see for bloody £25 an hour - and I keep trying to persuade her to let them help with his personal care).

He is blind and deaf and doubly incontinent and wearing pads. They share a bed and he will go into the bathroom and take the pad off flinging it everywhere, stepping in it etc and not realising. Adult social care have told her she should sell up and buy a bungalow. He is/was a huge hoarder and most of the house cannot be used because of this and I will not go in and try to “take over” and make her try to do this. She is an intelligent women who is capable of making her own decisions.

Adult social care banged on about the risk of a fire. They have lived there like that for 50 years with no fucking fire.

If they didn’t own their own home they would get so much more support and not have to face the prospect of selling up aged 90 to fund their own care?! m

She is lifting him about and cleaning up after him, he feels awful, she is exhausted. I do what I can without taking over.

Surely we are better than this?

Two different points. The care and support for older people is terrible? Completely agree.
Older people should be allowed to sit on assets which could be liquidised to fund better care? Completely disagree.
Out of interest, if you don't think their assets should be used for their care, what do you think should happen to them, given that in a few years time they will have no further need of assets?

If as you say, your NDN is an intelligent woman who can make her own decisions, then surely it’s on her? Sounds like you have done what you can but if she won’t do any more then that’s her decision. Perhaps if things get worse then she will make some different decisions? Same as we all have to. Sounds like you are doing the best thing by finding out what is actually available - sometimes elderly people will accept care that is free and this can be the gateway to increasing usage of the relevant services, even if they then have to pay.

I expect that my parents will eventually fund their own care by selling their house. How can this not be the right thing to do? I cannot imagine expecting that the taxpayer should pay when they have assets.

I feel how we treat 18-25 year olds particularly those struggling with mental health is far more disgusting.

Elderly people who have enjoyed a non stretched NHS their whole lives and have assets younger generations will never have not so much. We have seen it from both sides. My elderly aunt with no children having to sell her very expensive house for top notch care really isn’t comparable to teens left for months chronically mentally ill with nothing and no assets to pay for anything. If taxes go up for parents they will be even less able to try and bridge gaps in the NHS and society for youngsters who are far worse off.

Yes it would.

Caps on care costs go over well with voters but in reality have never actually been implemented.

Op, kindly, you're only seeing what she wants you to see. Your description of her suggests you see her an an extra Mum figure because she reminds you of your own mother (same age, same social situation etc) but that's not the case.

We currently have an issue with my FIL refusing care. He still has capacity and so all we can do is wait for a Blue Light moment, when he injures or poisons himself and is declared without capcity.

This is not preventing the neightbour over the road, who is a GP and should know better, from sending heartfelt missives to us about his needing to visit us "for a couple of weeks" to get back on his feet (not possible, and he won't) and believing his tales of no food (he'd forgotten he'd shopped), no care (on the phone daily, with a support service twice a week to shop / run errands / do haircuts, drs appts, opticians etc), no-one to help him (all personal and household care refused).

This is not something society in general can fix if your neighbour choose not to engage.

Kings Fund (hardly a right wing think tank) saying how unique UK health care model is & how many rich countries have social care models that are patchy in implementation. Nobody seems to have a free-at-point-of-use service, Sweden comes closest.

Let this thread be a warning to all of us to make sure we make things easy for our kids & neighbours when the time comes for us to need social care support.

I can offer huge packages of care, I can offer to support a move, I can offer food delivery services (though we don't fund these) I can coordinate so much.

This may be true where you live but not where we are. We offered to pay for services, and neither the county nor borough councils have services to offer. Even the care companies couldn't provide care at the times needed. SS said they would have to put my mum into a care home but the ones they are talking about are awful. So I'm now staying a week at my mums to cover a carers holiday.

I don't agree with how the present govt are suggesting funding social care but at least it seems like the issue is on the table and people are discussing it. But unless you've actually been involved in trying to arrange care, even trying to get advice, you cannot know how awful it is. And it's also naive to say everyone should have planned for their old age care - as if there is just one set route that your old age is going to take. Decline is not linear or predictable. So many things can happen that it would be impossible to plan for all eventualities.

I meant legally.

The availability of services is a nationwide issue. Technically lots of stuff exists but there isn't the availability of staff to do stuff due to a mix of Brexit and covid and the fact that care is a shit job for shit pay.

However the law is very clear that availability of services shouldn't be a barrier to acceptance in to them and if your local authority is refusing to put you on a waiting list then they are acting unlawfully.

The only reason to hold on to your own home into old age is so that you DO have an asset that can be used to fund care! I fully expect to have to do that myself. It's also why we work hard, invest & pay into our pensions. What is the point of having money or an asset otherwise - as the old saying goes "you can't take it with you"!

Besswess88 ·
I absolutely disagree that your assets should be used for your care.”

why? We are responsible for ourselves at every other adult stage of our lives. Why should others pay for us because we’re old?

were 59 and 64, been planning for years so that we are self-sufficient.

(also, if they’re a married couple, how is it that she’s never been in love?)

Assets are irrelevant in accessing support, the only thing that opens doors is a diagnosis for something like dementia- even then it's pretty hit and miss. Are you sure what you

What about the elderly having mental health struggles? What about my mother with dementia being refused assessment for dementia because she says she hasn't got it....because she has dementia.
The reason the NHS wasn't so stretched during my mums life, is because they weren't offered the amount of services and treatments that are there today. Would you rather your children were brought up with the cancer treatments available in the 1950s? As for mental health care for 18-25yos, well, that just didn't exist in the 1950s. I guess you ended up in some sort of asylum. Would you want your child to go into one of those?
If you think you've experienced the care system by having an aunt selling an expensive house to get top notch care, then you really, really haven't.

Think they should want matches what they actually want? Many times elderly people are told what they should be doing or feeling by well meaning people with no consideration for their own thoughts.

This isn't true. We work with people who have no diagnosis of anything.

If she was born in 1935 it would make her 87, not 90.

Where I work it's only with a diagnosis thanks to the horrendous cuts of the past decade or so. Without one social services, the council, occ health, no one will do anything.

However the law is very clear that availability of services shouldn't be a barrier to acceptance in to them and if your local authority is refusing to put you on a waiting list then they are acting unlawfully.

That's a great principle but what does it mean in practice, though? Put her on a waiting list for services that don't exist? That's just box ticking that has absolutely no point. I'd like a hot meal to be delivered once a day. That is not available round here. So what is the point of being on a waiting list for non existent meals?

Because a waiting list shows a need for a service. As a social worker one of my roles is identifying lack of need and petitioning commissioners for it.

OP, how did social services get involved, I doubt all they suggested was moving into a bungalow. Have your ndn agreed to having assessments. Some of your post is a bit confusing.

Ridiculous. Of course it should be used.

*they should be used.

I agree, care should be free, cradle to grave and all that.
I also think inheritance tax should be much, much higher and hate the way people hoard assets, even after their death ffs, its created such an unfair society.
And before anyone calls be just jealous or whatever, I will be paying a very large inheritance tax bill both when I receive on inheritance and when I leave one even with the ridiculously high threshold and low rate we have at the moment .

Because a waiting list shows a need for a service. As a social worker one of my roles is identifying lack of need and petitioning commissioners for it.

I hadn't thought of that and it's a fair point. The county council stopped provided meals on wheels type services years ago and they say there is a demand but it they're not filling it. We have to pay someone to come in and cook it at the hourly rate of £25ph! I mean its just not sustainable. I can't even get deliveroo or ubereats round us. And there is a private company in a nearby town but no one wants to supply to villages.

I'm not having a go at you as a social worker, I know its a tough job, but your messages convey to people on here that there is support for anyone who wants it. And the reality is I couldn't even get basic advice on what was available - except for benefits. Lots of advice on that. But I needed advice about practical matters and it appears there is no way to get that advice. I've researched on the Internet and now have quite a good set up for my mum but her needs are constantly changing. Why isn't there a central place where information can be accessed.
Honestly, for anyone entering the social care system it's a total nightmare that has left me in tears on several occasions. It's not an easy passage and I'm locked into constant battles with the nhs. I don't believe that most people in their late 70s or 80s could possible navigate the system on their own.

@LuaDipa So if you developed n stage Cancer, your happy for your house to be used to fund your palliative care?

Or is that "different" ?

If people saved and paid for their own care then no one would have to pay inheritance tax because there would be nothing to inherit