...to think it really, really counter-productive to coach children for 11+?

[duchesse]

< rant > (sorry)

I'm imagining they will come unstuck faster than a book shelf put up with NoMoreNails if they are not up to it?

Added to which the child may subsequently be dreadfully unhappy and scared to tell its parents.

Also am pissed off that the only grammar school in our area gets filled up by rich Surrey tossers who can afford a second home here ad move into catchment for their over-coached child's secondary education, thereby leaving the rest of us poor devoners to scrounge around for the pennies to send our child to the best not-free school?

That said, we do not yet know that she has not got in, but we do know that she is easily clever enough, as she walked into our local very selective very academic girls' school UNCOACHED and aced her test.

< end rant >

sorry

Sorry, with children facing the 11 plus. You see as you say state schools offer no help. Many people do not have a tutor and the schools tell you not to. So what help can they give their child ?

I am in the same position. My DS is taking the 11 plus in a few months time. I have tutored him myself. I dodn't pay for a private tutor. I don't think it is necessary unless the parent can't work out the answers.

The first thing to do is not to believe people who say that practising makes no difference. You hear headteachers saying not to bother coaching because it makes no difference, but I bet when it is their children's turn they get all the coaching they need. What I did was get the NFER and Bond papers from WHSmiths and looked on the net for good additional resources. I think it is possible to prepare from just these resources. But lots of parents have forgotten their maths or have trouble with some of the tough NVR questions. In that case it is worth getting a good tutor who can explain some of these concepts. But there are also some good free internet forums where you can ask 11 plus questions and other parents and children help out and explain the answers. I would say get lots of practice papers, identify weak areas and do more practice in those areas. There are some very good Bond tuition books for sale as well. Don't believe those who say it is all down to natural ability, that just hides the truth that prep schools and parents spending hundreds of pounds on tutors really do give an advantage, that it is not a level playing field, it is not a fair system and you have to practise to be on an equal footing with all the others who have been tutored.

It is a shame that it is all so unfair. I had fallen for head teachers line of "there is no need". It seems to be the standard line that they take. I imagine your DS will do brilliantly with your help. Good luck to him !

I hope so. Yes I think many people fall for this line, because they hear it from so many people. Have your DC already been through the process?

No, one of them may in the future. I know a lot of people in education, I won't say why if you don't mind This is how i have met people who use that line.

you're exactly right. I think it's all to do with politics to be honest. They want to discourage children from going to grammars and therefore state schools don't provide much help. Even the heads at grammars pretend that hothoused kids fail at grammar, when being hothoused in nonverbal reasoning has nothing whatsoever to do with studying French at grammar, for example. By saying this the grammar heads can keep up the pretence that it is a fair system and not alert parents to the unfairness of the process.

Good luck Claig! I helped DD prepare for 11+ last year for a super-selective grammar. We didn't use a tutor but we did use practice papers for familiarisation and they certainly helped with improving confidence and speed. But I really don't think that a tutor can do much more than this if the test is just NVR and VR. Either a child 'gets' it or she doesn't, and I don't believe that a tutor can get a candidate of middling natural ability into the top 10%. Anyway, I really hope not!

But there is a big tutoring industry around 11+ so there are lots of people who are scared they will disadvantage their child if they don't opt for tutoring. And the tutors have a strong interest in promoting the idea that they have special insider knowledge which is essential to success.

Subtle as a .............

(1 mark)

Hmm this looks like another thread where the conclusion is that the education system and life in general is unfair! My eldest 2 asked to go to a tutor once a week from age 10 so that they could get into the grammar school rather than go to the local comp where the EB score was less than 10%. It cost me less than sky TV to do it. They didnt need pushing into it but one hour a week for a year is well worth it imo. GCSE's are unfair because kids can crib off the internet ditto A levels. Uni entry is unfair, job interviews are unfair. My kids know this but get on with it and hope for the decent breaks.

This looks like an ancient thread dredged up for the purpsoe of advertising!

whoops - purpose*

Yup, hence my comments.

I have reported.