‘Telling off’ from a teacher?

[Thistledew]

DS is in year 1.
Summer born so not yet 6yrs old. He is being investigated for potential ADHD.

He was the last one out of the classroom and then had to go back in because he had forgotten his water bottle. His teacher stopped him as he was finally coming out and told him that if he had been paying more attention and not messing around then he could have been out of the classroom much earlier.

Would you think the teacher was being unfair and could have approached the situation in a way to better help DS learn?

@LooksLikeImStuckHere that kind of scaffolding is great. My dc does well using a checklist

If I’d heard one of my teachers saying this, I wouldn’t tell them off but I would ask them to perhaps be mindful of what they say

that is a telling off.

I'm autistic and have ADHD and I have two DC who are autistic/ADHD. All diagnosed formally, just for those who are cynical.

@MissHavershamReturns @ForestFae @SherbertLemonDrop @LillyDeValley I agree with everything you've said. Threads like this genuinely make me feel a bit sick.

Everyone queueing up on here to point out that ADHD kids can behave when they choose to, and that we shouldn't be making excuses for them because THEY SHOULD JUST PAY ATTENTION and then they'd be fine.

It shows a absolute failure to understand the brain chemistry and neurology of ADHD etc. If we could just remember and pay attention, then we bloody well would. Kids are done so much damage with the constant and casual reprimands about how shit they're being. Comments like this will come streaming in over the years and it fundamentally affects how you view yourself. You end up just feeling like a failure because you can't "just" do the things that come so easily to everyone else, no matter how much you bloody well try.

Kids who are neurodiverse can misbehave and of course they need pulling up. ADHD isn't a magic get out of jail free card. However, when the issue relates to the neurodiversity, then it's a different matter.

Would people say to someone in a wheelchair "well if you would only try a bit harder to walk you'd be OK"? Clearly not. That would be awful and cruel. Executive dysfunction is a very large part of ADHD and can be extremely disabling. Just blithely telling them to pay attention and remember things is no different than suggesting someone can "just" overcome a physical disability. Kids with ADHD need proper support mechanisms which are tailored specifically to them. A general reminder to the class at large isn't going to work.

I know there's this idea that children with ADHD are just naughty and it's poor parenting - I really thought we'd started to move past this but apparently not.

I understand what you're saying but I went to school in the 80s, I really don't remember any children like this and if a child was naughty, they were disciplined and behaved. There's seems to be classes full of ADHD today, why is that? I haven't researched so it's a genuine question..

This is OTT. Let the teacher do her job and stop being one of “those” parents?

My son had/has ADD and I don’t feel the teacher’s done anything wrong.

I would wonder why she’d make the comment in the first place. So what if he’s last one out. I’d think “oh great you found your water bottle, have a nice evening/see you tomorrow”

my son has ADHD and I see when he makes mistakes associated with it how it effects him, he groans and goes into himself but I know he can’t help it so it’s not worth mentioning, but looking for something to praise to build self esteem instead

I understand what you're saying but I went to school in the 80s, I really don't remember any children like this and if a child was naughty, they were disciplined and behaved.

Agreed.

My first piece of advice is to critically consider any advice you are given from people without experience of ADHD.

The second piece of advice is to read this tweet.
mobile.twitter.com/The_Weed/status/1534592771792572418

Kids with adhd don't need the same reminders that neurotypical kids need. That's like chastising a deaf kid for not trying hard enough to listen.

I went to school in the 80s as well. To answer your question, there are lots of possible reasons why there's "more" ADHD today:

• Better understanding of the condition due to more research
• Greater acceptance of neurodiversity
• Greater awareness of neurodiversity
• Less shame around neurodiversity - and more openness. In the 80s, would people have openly shared diagnoses? It wouldn't have happened where I went to school, not unless it was unavoidable.
• When you were a child you probably wouldn't have noticed it because you were just growing up yourself!
• Greater appetite to seek a diagnosis
• Better understanding that there are multiple types of ADHD - being loud, disruptive and rude is the stereotype (which can be true of some) but there are other types of ADHD as well.

Also, just to correct your post - there absolutely are NOT "classes full of ADHD". There really really isn't. It's incredibly hard to get a diagnosis of either autism or ADHD and lots of younger children (7 yrs old or below) are frequently told that they'll be re-assessed again when they're older. A diagnosis is really not easy to get.

Just to say, I appreciate how I'm probably coming across here but I'm not trying to be pissy - honest 😊 It's just so unbelievably frustrating to hear the same incorrect information repeated so many times - and people believe it.

In the past there were lots of things that weren't acknowledged or treated as just plain naughtiness. I mean, we used to lock women up in sanatoriums and label them as hysterical..... Just because ADHD wasn't as well-known about before doesn't mean that it's not genuine.

To put all of this in context, if you give someone with ADHD a stimulant, their brain does not react in the same way. If you take a stimulant, you'll be buzzed off your tits and hyper. If I take the stimulant, I feel relaxed and drowsy. Our brains are chemically and neurologically different. ADHD isn't just some airy-fairy notion. And yet, snarky comments (not yours) keep continuing about "well, in my day we just dealt with naughty kids" or whispers of "bad parenting" and "discipline".

You have no idea what it's like to stand in our shoes and hear this constant shit from people who literally have no concept of what ADHD feels like, and how disabling it can be. And yet, we're constantly spoken over. Just look at this thread - you have people who actually have ADHD telling you what it's like - but there's a whole heap of people sneering at the idea and insisting that kids are just naughty and need to learn. Again, not aimed at you - I really appreciate you taking the time to ask an honest question.

Sorry, just realised I didn't address part of your question.

You say when you were at school, naughty kids were just disciplined and then "behaved".

There are three types of ADHD - hyperactive, inattentive and combined. Inattentive ADHD is much harder to spot. It is just as disabling and again, see my previous comments re brain chemistry and the effect that stimulants have on us.

I wasn't diagnosed as school. I was a high achiever. Generally a "good girl". Really good grades. Behaved in class. You would never have known.

And yet. Horribly disorganised. Lost everything. Constantly late. Struggled remembering what I needed to have and when. Struggled to concentrate/focus. Struggled to know what to do in unstructured settings. Overwhelmed by anxiety. Just overwhelmed. So, so overwhelmed.

You. Wouldn't. Have. Known.

You would just have seen a quiet, pleasant girl who got on with her circle of friends, got her head down and seemed to do OK in school. You wouldn't have seen the constant turmoil that went on inside trying to navigate the most basic stuff that other kids seems to do without even thinking. You wouldn't have known how utterly USELESS I felt all of the time because basic life skills seemed so bloody impossible. I had to work so sodding hard just to get by, while constantly being criticised for messiness, being disorganised, arriving late to class, leaving homework until the very, very last minute (poor time management skills and inability to focus).

I developed really unhealthy coping mechanisms which have stayed with me for life, and have caused so many problems.

I'm a professional now and have a good career. If you met me and you knew nothing about ADHD other than the stereotype of loud, disruptive boys who misbehave, you'd never know. But privately, life is an uphill battle. I struggle so much in so many ways but only those who are very very close to me know.

But the thing is, there are lots of ADHDers just like me. You probably went to school with lots of us, and just never noticed how hard we found things. Like me, they probably weren't diagnosed but even if they were, you probably wouldn't have realised.

Thank you so much ❤️

My mum taught 6-yr-olds. I knew her for 96 years, so extremely well.

She would’ve been anxious to leave herself at the end of the school day — she wouldn’t have had a second thought about a little kid being forgetful.
Kids can be forgetful at 5-6, whether or not they’re diagnosed with anything like ADHD.
And even if mum had noticed, I’m sure she would’ve been kind.
The kid forgot his water bottle — he isn’t an axe murderer and he didn’t deserve any type of comment except “have a nice rest of your day.”
He’s FIVE for god’s sake.

Sounds like yet another teacher who has no idea of teaching sen Children. If he does have adhd the messing about isn't his fault. There needs to be much more awareness of it in schools.

@IDreamOfTheMoors exactly ! Five is so little and of course they forget things! Sounds like this teacher could do with a little bit of sen training.

This sounds like yet another parent who has no idea of the reality of life in schools.

this year I have more than 20 different SEND conditions on my register. Some years it’s more than 30.

and every single condition has its adult advocates wanting to ‘raise awareness’ and impose ‘a little bit if sen training’ and not a blind clue about reality in the classroom.

we get even ‘experts’ in the same condition blatantly contradicting each other

@12Thorns Good job the medical experts who’ve spent years studying it have teachers like you to set them straight eh

The reality is that your ignorance and the way you treat children causes damage that directly leads to the kind of mental health issues so many children with ND suffer.

My god those evil Sen advocates eh. Heaven forbid someone should try to explain to you that disabilities require reasonable adjustments as a matter of law.

@SpidersAreShitheads I’m so glad to read what you’ve written. There is a lot of work to do to make people in school understand.

The wonderful thing is that as part of my job I work with a lot of young adults and those under 25/30 are much on average more understanding of ND.

When the dinosaurs have left the classroom we have a whole new generation coming through who will have a mostly different view. That might be too late for our dc, but there is hope for the grandchildren.

In case anyone isn’t aware of the statistics around ADHD and suicide there is more here: chadd.org/attention-article/adhd-self-harm-and-suicide/

On suicidality - ”Adults with ADHD have a higher risk compared to other adults”

”It is also crucial to note that children with ADHD are at a higher risk of developing psychiatric disorders...When they coexist with ADHD, these disorders are risk factors for suicidality.”

Basically the mental health risks associated strongly with ADHD are the most important reason why our children shouldn’t be spoken to in a judgmental or unkind way about their disability or behaviours directly as a result of it.

Children who aren’t able in relation to the curriculum no longer wear the dunce hat and they aren’t given the cane for failure to learn. That was acceptable in Victorian times though. Teachers saw it as part of their job.

I don’t think anyone would defend a teacher now saying to a child on the bottom table “it took me a lot longer to teach the class today because you couldn’t understand the work set. You need to try harder”.

Yet that is exactly what comments like the ones made about the water bottle are like to children with ADHD. I’m incredibly motivated to be organised and not get distracted yet it’s very hard for me.

There is quite a lot of ‘them and us’ comments about ND children and teachers on here. There seems to be an assumption that teachers are all NT. Where I work, 3 teachers have ADHD and and 2 have ASC. I also know several teachers who have dyslexia and one who has dyspraxia. I also know lots of teachers who have children who are ND.

I'm a TA. You would hate me. I'm absolutely lovely and adore the children BUT my telling off are waaaaay harsher than that. I must say what your teacher said at least 5 times a day.

I should add TA in special education, fully qualified in working with children with ADHD, Autism etc before I get told I'm too mainstream

@Veol I think the issue in this case is the language this teacher used about not messing round and being last sits uncomfortably with a child with suspected ADHD.

No ones saying there aren’t teachers who are amazing with SEN or ND themselves. My child has the most amazing teacher this year who is ND and she totally gets my child, because as she says, “I was that child. I was the one utterly anxious in class because I used to get told off for doing things wrong, but I was trying my hardest”.