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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Attempted upskirting by delivery man

281 replies

upskirting · 13/06/2022 23:09

Bizarre and shocking experience today, thanks to a delivery man working for a large well known delivery firm acting on behalf of a major U.K. retailer.

He "had to tie his shoelaces" three times in the 5ish mins he and his male colleague were here. I was home alone. Each time he moved uncomfortably close to me and then knelt on the floor and put his phone camera-up on the floor next to him. I felt uncomfortable but couldn’t believe that he was trying anything.

The third time I was in an area like a utility room, and he'd knelt in front of the doorway, essentially blocking me in... and then said, oh sorry, i'm blocking you! He moved himself but not the phone, which I would have had to step over or close to over, to get past into the main room. Fortunately I had the good sense to stay where I was.

AIBU that this man should lose his job? As should his colleague, who clearly knew what was going on? And also, WWYD now, if you were me?

OP posts:
Ohthatsexciting · 14/06/2022 07:54

AnyFucker · 14/06/2022 07:03

@SpringIsSprung1

what do you think Sarah Everard should have done ?

This is so disrespectful.
please imagine being her mother and seeing her name raised like this in a mumsnet chat forum

LadyEggs · 14/06/2022 07:55

I was assaulted by a man in a hotel safe room. As he put my passport into the safe he passed his arm across my breasts. It took me a while to process what had happened because he made it look like an accident but the pointed look he gave me as it happened is still etched in my mind. In the moment I think we just want to give people the benefit of the doubt.

OP I would definitely report this, if nothing else because somebody else might have (or will) and it will help build up a picture for the company/police. I think you did brilliantly for spotting it.

nickthefox · 14/06/2022 07:57

upskirting · 13/06/2022 23:24

Feels like a stretch to call the police? They don’t have time for real crimes, let alone an attempted one which in reality is his plus his mate’s word against mine…

you call the police because
-he knows where you live

  • he knows at least one day and time of the week where you are alone
  • he may have more images of customers on his phone or more complaints from people or he might in the future

just so I can he flagged up if he ever comes back I'd report.

DecayedStrumpet · 14/06/2022 07:58

@upskirting you definitely did nothing wrong. I have a strong martial arts background and study self defence, and there's no way I would have started a physical confrontation with two strong guys, one of whom has just shown he's a sex offender, in a confined private space.

You did really well to spot what he was up to and avoid the phone - I probably wouldn't have thought anything of it other than 'your phone will get trodden on there, dickhead'.
But like you say, the way he was acting with the excuses clearly triggered your instinct that something was off - no. 1 self defence principle is to listen to that feeling and not squish it down to be polite, and that can really take some learning, so congrats - I would say you did everything right.

Really hope the police see how worrisome this is and don't just brush it aside.

Laiste · 14/06/2022 08:00

Posters asking OP why she didn't do x y z .....

Is it because you don't believer her and you're trying to 'catch her out'?

Is it because you want her to say ''yes, you're right, i'm so pathetic''?

Is it because you think people somehow deserve what they get unless they act in a certain way at the time?

I mean really - what are you driving at?

ItWillBeOkHonestly · 14/06/2022 08:02

upskirting · 14/06/2022 01:05

Oh sorry, the names won’t prevent it but it means I can report “James X” or “Alan Y” or whatever on social media or to the police. Hopefully they’ll feel a bit more accountable. Maybe… Probably nor, but it’s all we could think of as prevention. Minus trousers, clearly(!)

OP, you have nothing to prove to the people here who think they'd have done differently in the same situation. Truth is, it can take us a good few minutes to twig that something is 'off' and even then, it's often a case of we've been conditioned to just simply smile and get it over with, not make 'a scene'. At that point, with 2 unknown men in your home you were vulnerable and so demanding they leave could have put you more at risk. You did the right thing!

I live alone and I'm always cautious if I have work done in the house. I recently had the carpets cleaned and because it was going to take over an hour (and I didn't know the guy), I went to a friend's for coffee and told him to text me when he was done. There's always a risk of theft or whatever but I felt more comfortable being out of the house...plus I flipping hate small talk with people I don't know! 😂

I think you handled the situation as best as you could in the circumstances. I'm sorry you had to go through that. It must feel very violating. I hope the police will at least look into it.

Laiste · 14/06/2022 08:03

Ohthatsexciting · 14/06/2022 07:54

This is so disrespectful.
please imagine being her mother and seeing her name raised like this in a mumsnet chat forum

Show quote history

I think SE's mother would be horrified by the victim blaming going on on this thread.

Her daughters name being raised in the name of calling it out - not so much.

GnomeDePlume · 14/06/2022 08:03

In the instant your instincts say something is wrong. But our instincts aren't normally honed to threat of upskirting. OP was in her own home, having furniture delivered.

This is unlikely to be the first time this person has done this. He will have practiced. It is possible other people in the wider team or his friendship group also do this or at least condone it.

@upskirting thank you for posting about this horrible experience. I will talk with DH and DS to make them aware (both work in home delivery) that this is potentially a 'thing' and to look out for it.

I will also warn my DDs.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 14/06/2022 08:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WTAF is this victim blaming?!

Benjispruce4 · 14/06/2022 08:10

This is shocking OP. You must have felt so vulnerable. Do you think he had the phone on video the whole time? Would that show on the screen while it was in the floor? Or do you think he was going to press when you stepped over? Well done for raising this.

EvergreenForest · 14/06/2022 08:12

@Ohthatsexciting I think SE's mother would be more horrified by your first disgraceful post

Benjispruce4 · 14/06/2022 08:14

It is indeed so disheartening that our police do nothing. Even if they contacted the company by email to say they’d had a report and to make them aware . Surely that would result in a warning to all their delivery personnel?

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 14/06/2022 08:15

I agree police. Yea it was an attempted crime but not the first time he will have done this so likely he has evidence of other crimes

Vapeyvapevape · 14/06/2022 08:21

I can't believe some people asking why Op didn't do xyz and saying they would have done this that or the other. Bully for you but I doubt very much you would have trodden on the phone or poured tea on him or reacted at all tbh.

TooMuchBoozeTooManyBoos · 14/06/2022 08:26

Frankly, the OP managed to:

a) clock what was happening
b) control herself so that they did not get the shot they needed
and
c) stay safe

That's about as perfect a fucking outcome as anyone can expect when faced with being a potential victim of a crime.

I hope the police take it seriously and I'm grateful for the extra information that this might be a tactic so I can now be aware of it.

jolietomate · 14/06/2022 08:26

Social media is your best bet to get it taken seriously - comment on the brand’s Twitter, Facebook and Instagram accounts

CaptainMyCaptain · 14/06/2022 08:30

OutDamnedSpot · 13/06/2022 23:13

You need to report it to the company, and maybe even the police.

Do this.

Daisydoesnt · 14/06/2022 08:33

OP another voice asking you to please, please report this to the police. Even if he didn’t actually manage to take a photo (or video) of you he will likely have other victims on his phone or backed up elsewhere. It might not seem or have felt like a crime, but there is a very, very good reason why upskirting was specifically made a crime three years ago. It’s a “gateway” sexual crime, and men who carry out these acts can then go on to commit horrific violent, sexual crimes. He needs to be stopped now. I remember at the time a police chief pleading with victims of upskirting to come forward.

Let’s none of us forget that Wayne Couzens started with flashing.

hennybeans · 14/06/2022 08:36

Thank you for reporting it, op. I think you've done everything right. It would have been risky to confront him. Maybe his mate was in on it too and you were in the house alone with them. Your reporting might mean the next woman is believed, even if there's nothing they can do about your experience.

hennybeans · 14/06/2022 08:45

Also to add, I think blocking you in a small space and then pointing it out to you ( even if said in a "oh, my mistake" kind of way) is actually quite threatening and sinister. Making you aware that you're trapped, not in control, less likely to challenge him.

BreatheAndFocus · 14/06/2022 08:46

I wouldn’t never have thought about this as a possibility - thank you, OP. It’s made me shudder actually, remembering workmen putting their phone on the floor when in my house. I knew about upskirting but I’d never have thought about the scenario you described.

I think you did right. You had to protect yourself and avoid a confrontation. Do report it though. That way if they try it again and another woman reports them, your report will already be there and give more credence.

GrimDamnFanjo · 14/06/2022 08:49

This is worrying.
I think you should report and create a paper trail.
This bloke has access to women who are likely to be alone and is behaving very strangely.

Lottie2shoes · 14/06/2022 08:50

@GrinAndVomit That made me laugh out loud!

Back to what every one else is saying, why not do this or that etc.
I'm the type that most likely would do something back. Sometimes I worry that I might end up in a sticky situation because of it. The rash impulse to confront and defend myself.
I have previously on an occasion or 2 said something back or even shown my anger at what some man has done.
Thankfully nothing has ever come about from it, but get the wrong type of man and it could change. I am trying to be the patient type now who calmly deals with a situation.
I think the OP dealt with it the best way possible.
She had 2 men in her home and she was by herself. I think she did well going back to the company and explaining to them, that for the safety of other women, she would like something to be done.
If he thinks he can get away with it, no one is going to say anything etc, he will become brazen in doing things further.

MrsClatterbuck · 14/06/2022 08:53

hennybeans · 14/06/2022 08:45

Also to add, I think blocking you in a small space and then pointing it out to you ( even if said in a "oh, my mistake" kind of way) is actually quite threatening and sinister. Making you aware that you're trapped, not in control, less likely to challenge him.

Very good point. I would also make police aware of this potentially dangerous behaviour

pushingpoppies · 14/06/2022 09:01

Report straight to police. They can check his phone for evidence if he's done it before. To the employer will just give him a heads up and can delete all the evidence first