To expect people to be able to control their children on planes?

[Ace56]

I recently returned from a long haul trip with connecting flights, so was on 5 planes altogether.

On 4 of these flights I was around children who’s parents just seemed to pussyfoot around them and seemed unable to control them.

Flight 1 - mum and 2 kids in the row in front of me. Dad across the aisle, plonks himself down on his laptop for the entire flight. Little boy (around 2-3) EXTREMELY loud, continuous shrieking, disrupting his sister. They had brought nothing for him to do - no iPad/colouring/books, so no wonder he was bored. Just shrieked constantly to get mum’s attention. Dad did absolutely nothing to help, didn’t offer to take him. Neither took him for a walk down the aisle or anything - he literally was in his seat the entire flight, absolutely bored shitless and disturbing everyone around him.

Flight 2 - girl of about 3 sitting behind me, next to mum. Dad across the aisle. Was fine during the flight but kept switching between mum and dad, and taking it in turns to sit on their lap watching her iPad. When it came to landing, she still wanted to switch every few mins. Air hostess politely told them a few times that she needs to be seated now for landing. Parents meekly tried to make her sit still with one of them but eventually gave up, so for the actual landing she ended up in the aisle (very dangerous) with mum holding onto her T-shirt. Air hostesses were seated at this point so couldn’t do anything/didn’t notice.

Flight 3 - boy of about 5 in front of me, standing up in his seat, leaning back into the seat, generally jumping around. Mum apologised but made no real attempt to stop him.

Flight 4 - large extended family sitting in various places around the plane. Children allowed to shout at each other across rows and over people’s heads, not told to stop once.

AIBU to despair at parenting these days if this is the norm? Have other people come across situations like this or was I just very unlucky?!

We have travelled with DD since she was around 3 months on planes around 5-6 times a year. As a baby it was quite easy because I could just nurse her on take off/landing to soothe her and help with ear pressure. As a toddler she was expected to behave just as she would on a train/bus or long car journey. Ipads were not really a thing for young children then but we were was totally able to manage European and transatlantic flights with books/colouring and some attention. We still travel a lot (now just me and DD) and she would rather sit away from me and read etc .

SEND aside, planes are just a flying bus to get you a bit further away. There is absolutely no reason for young children to behave in a way which inconveniences others- so usual parenting rules apply. European travel is usually 4 hours max, so not a massive deal to read/colour, chat or watch cartoons with a child if needed.

As for parents who hand an iPad to their children without headphones......I have always turned around to ask them to use headphones or asked the crew to ask if a bit further back. It is just basic courtesy and 99% of people on the flight will have their headphones on and quietly sit throughout the flight.

Not wishing to derail, and yes, OP, completely YANBU about the bad behaviour, but quite a few posters have asked, "what can I do to avoid a bad time when I am going with DD this summer". I have travelled with my four since birth, mainly short-haul, so I have had a think about what has helped me. Sorry it is a bit of a long post, but I hope it helps.

Expect to have 0% “me time” (for either parent if there are two).
As most have said, it is the lack of parenting attention that makes things unacceptable.
Take their shoes off (although kicking the seat in front is just "not on", and they need to know this, socky kicking is not quite as bad as boot kicking)
YOU put the table up and down for them as required (this can be done gently by you, because, let's face it, it won’t be done gently by them)
Comfy clothing, with a spare set
Snacks that they really enjoy and are a treat, but not too many sweet things / or chocolate
Have their favourite "go to sleep" things, blanket, dummy and “try them” for a nap, ideally an hour or so before landing
Knacker them before the flight (double edged sword this one!)
Travel sick tablets
Strong plastic bags, wipes (unexpected turbulence of landing weirdness can cause unexpected travel sickness. Best prepared). I also take an old tea towel.
Lots of distractions “new things” colouring in, stickers etc., plenty of screen time (with headphones), or just music. The main attraction is if it is something 'new'
Mine liked the palaver of getting something from the trolley, I didn’t really like this due to the expense, but if they were going to spend half an hour making the perfect cup of tea etc. then I could go with it on this occasion.
Going the toilet more regularly than you normally would, especially as flight nears end, because the loos are closed for half an hour before you actually land in most cases (plus during turbulence etc.). Pull ups if you are not sure with the younger ones.
Walking up and down the aisle is OK as long as you are not impeding the trolleys / annoying other passengers
Enjoy some of the unique things about flying if you can – mine used to love watching the world below getting smaller and smaller, the clouds, rainbows,
the other aircraft.
I have never seen anything that works with ears as the plane descends, it also seems completely random. Being able to ‘pop’ your ears by holding your nose and blowing can help, but only with older kids. Drinking and chewing can help.
If you know your child is going to suffer, a spoonful of calpol will not do any harm half an hour before the plane starts descent.
Finally, when the plane lands, if possible, there should be no rush for you.
Take your time, gather your things calmly, let those who need to get off fast, get off fast, they will probably have to wait for you anyway on the bus, but at least they are out of the plane and out of your hair.
If all else fails, say sorry to the people around you, many of them will have been there before, and your efforts will not go unnoticed.

Kids will be kids and long jpurneys can be very boring, especially for the younger ones, but that's absolutely no excuse for such uncontrolled and anti-social behaviour by any child on such a long journey.
Parents of young children on long flights should consider other passengers, and try to control or amuse their children so they aren't a nuisance to others. I accept yhat it may not always be possible, but at least the parents should make some effort to control their children.

I mean 3& 4 I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at, I’m quite laid back and great at tuning out noisy kids, and the biggest arseholes on planes are usually adults so I find I’m more concerned about adult behaviour than kids on flights, 1&2 are crazy though, I’d expect the parents to be charged with neglect letting their kid stand in the aisle while the plane lands

For a flight kids get a new sticker/activity book (that they have chosen beforehand), a packet of sweets each and I bring a pack of cards. Expectations clearly set out and have never had problems

Yes. This!

I hope I am seated near you and your children on my next flight (or at least someone who has read your post!).

1.Some friends of ours, with four children all under the age of 10 (including one toddler) told us they are driving to a destination hundreds of miles away, rather than fly and inflict other passengers with small children. Some people DO care about not imposing their offspring on strangers.
2.It may not be the parents' fault that their children were seated all over the plane. Airlines have a responsibility to ensure that doesn't happen, and that every child under the age of 12 is seated next to a family member (except for "unaccompanied children"). The fact is, airlines care more about the bottom line and selling seats to the highest bidder than they do about passengers' comfort.
3.We have taken our young children on long flights (transAtlantic, etc.) and always provided them with enough to distract them the entire flight: books, a favorite toy, snacks, iPad, etc. Not to do so is gross negligence, and the airlines should do something about it, including BANNING from future flights people who won't make any effort to discipline their children. Again, see #2: people need to start making a fuss when airlines dump responsibility for passenger comfort and child management entirely on the stewardesses.
4.It is true that some children are harder to discipline than others, and children under the age of five are a real challenge even when they are well behaved, but it is the parents' responsibility to make sure children don't annoy passengers any more than can reasonably be expected, and FATHERS have no business leaving it all up to the mother. If I were the woman who was left to completely care for the children on a flight while spoiled dad retreated to his laptop, that would be the last flight I would take with the husband and children. Period.

My kids would be lucky to get back on the plane home behaving like that. I would give them a serious telling off. Although it sounds like a lot of the parents weren't prepared at all for a flight, which is crazy. Definitely not being unreasonable.

This, 100% this. As those in front of me and my attempts to control and calm my 3 year old recently would have experienced. He cannot deal with any kind of physical intervention. And I still did it on a recent flight, because of the people in front being really angry about him. And yes, I had the ipad, and the colouring books, and the snacks, and the 'wee activity packs' and all the rest, all of which kept him busy for 10 minutes max and then back to fidgety shouty hell. And we moved him around, and walked him up and down, and begged and pleaded, and held him down physically. Normally, he's amenable, but we realised very early into the flight that all of our calming strategies involve toys that aren't actually helpful on a plane (vehicles that tend to roll off under seats!) or removal (not great if the seatbelt sign is on).

I wish I'd had a crystal ball to realise how difficult he might be on a plane (despite being fine on lengthy bus and train journeys recently). I won't fly again with him (apart from the return flight - pray for me), but I could have done without the furious judgement from those in front of me. Who were fully reclined the entire flight - and I don't actually have a problem with reclining, btw, but surely you have to accept that it does increase the possibilty of being disturbed by the people behind you.

But do please tell me what else I could have done, to qualify as 'trying to parent' as opposed to being a lazy, entitled twat.

And we moved him around, and walked him up and down, and begged and pleaded, and held him down physically.

That does count as trying. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always work. But it does count as trying.

Live and learn and be better prepared for your next flight.

Well, the people in front of me didn’t believe or care that I was trying and read me the riot act (and the rest). So maybe the same applies to those giving out about poor parenting in this thread - there seems to be a thin line between feckless and virtuous to be honest.

And any tips to be “better prepared” would be appreciated. Here is what I had:

an iPad loaded with his favourite shows
his favourite books
am ‘activity pack’ with new colouring books, crayons, plastic tat, chocolate
a snack pack in an exciting new container with compartments with crackers and fruits etc

None of which kept him occupied for longer than 10 minutes each and even while they were occupying him he was bothering the people in front by leaning on the tray table or kicking the seat (with his three year old legs).

Hoping for a lengthy sleep on the way home anyway, and then for sure will be ferry holidays for the next few years!

I should say I was hyper vigilant about the seat kicking (which was not kicking but moving his feet but with his leg length would have felt like kicking, sure). So a lot of grabbing his feet and forcefully moving them while he was watching a cartoon, which didn’t go down well and resulted in a lot of shouting.

This is not a kid-hating thread. It’s a complaint about entitled, oblivious parents. As an ex-flight attendant I can assure you that you are not at all unreasonable, but then it‘s not only kids that behave badly. People need to learn that the sky is not a natural environment for humans and conditions are not the same as on the ground. The food carts weigh over 250kgs to avoid hitting the ceiling and injuring people during turbulence. I have hit the ceiling and needed to first aid two of my crew who were injured. I have also received a broken bone in a heavy landing. I was a grown adult. It is not inconceivable that a small child would receive much worse injuries. There is also the hygiene risk. The carpets on planes are disgusting. People puke, pee, vomit and worse. They insist on taking their shoes and socks off. Some even cut their toenails and leave them for us to deal with. 🤢 Kids behaving badly or in an intrusive manner can exacerbate the anxiety of passengers with MH issues and when they kick off, it can be dangerous. (It’s not fair on anyone.) Parents need to know that their kids are not as cute as they think to everyone who is trapped in the aircraft with them. I have had an irate passenger shrieking at me because a roaming toddler spilled an entire cup of juice all over his laptop and suit. I have had passenger chuck filled nappies in the food cart (more than once) while I was serving someone because they CBA waiting to get to the toilet to change their kid’s bum. This rendered all of the meals unfit for consumption so about 20% of the passengers went without.

You should be allowed to bring a tranquilizer gun on board., but I expect some do-gooder would complain.

As an unsecured load, she was called danger to everybody s itting in the vicinity

Young children have tantrums which do last for a short while but it is down to the parents to try to distract children who are bored, making a noise etc. Too many parents now let their children literally take control so everything becomes out of control. Those children often grow up to be the type of adults we wish we did not have to work for.

Brilliant!

YANBU. Also r/EntitledParents exists for a reason, some folks really do believe they are more important when they reproduce. But the kids fault at all.

As for parents who hand an iPad to their children without headphones

there is a very specific age circa 6-18months where a baby will be distracted by an iPad (mine both crawled at 6 months and HATED sitting still so on the plane this was an important last resort after toys/snacks/sleep etc) where they won’t wear headphones. I would have the volume very very low but I operated on the assumption that someone would rather listen to old McDonald than a baby fussing or crying.

there isn’t really an excuse for letting children behave like shit on a flight, but I see it every day in cafes and other places. There are just shit parents out there. Also to the PP who had a screaming baby she couldn’t settle - that happened to me once due to delays and fucked up nap schedules and it was horrendous but everyone was so kind because they could see I was in tears and trying my very, very best. The parents who don’t try need a slap!

Yes, the parents are at fault. Yes, I did take my children on long haul flights to visit my wife's family and it is entirely the parents' responsibility to keep their kids fully occupied on a plane when they are not sleeping. That means being prepared with colouring books, games, iPads etc. It is simply selfish to allow your kids to disturb others on the plane. I cannot miss this opportunity to mention Singapore Airlines cabin staff who were always fantastic in talking to and finding distractions for my kids.

I agree that there is a culture of soft parenting. It’s gone on for years. So many ways in which parents don’t think about the effect of the children on others. It goes across cultures and class (whatever that really means.) it’s as if parents often just can’t be bothered or are too afraid for their kids to feel anything they perceive as negative. I don’t want a return to authoritarian and the accepted abuse of so many generations before us.

Honestly though anyone who is responding with the words snowflake in their response deserves to be taken outside and slapped into front of their kids 🤦🏼‍♀️

what a kind and considerate mum you are! was so lovely to read your post and know there are still such great engaged parents who not only care about their own children hugely, but who are thinking of other people, not bashing other parents but finding people in general seem to be very entitled and 'I can do what I like and stuff you' (working in food retail during pandemic will make you rather dislike a good percentage of the human race!!) so thank you for your great post and for restoring my faith x

My kids always behave on flights i've been lucky don't get me wrong they've screamed and cried and a-bit when under 2 as they don't understand the concept of having to stay seated and belted on take off and landing. If anyone was unhappy about that sorry but you can't reason with a toddler who doesn't know what's going on.
I would not allow my children to shout around the plane that's not good behaviour in a confined environment.
Being a parent on a plane is hard, kids are unpredictable and tend to be very tired when travelling which impacts on behaviour. Also i feel for the mother whom was left to deal with the child while her partner did nothing.
So while i do partly agree with you i also sympathise in some areas of your posts with the actual parents. You also don't know if any of them having additional needs that could impact on their behaviour and potentially to the way the parent reacted. There could of been a reason they didn't have an ipad - or maybe they can't afford one. Not all kids like colouring. Having said that you would prepare with alternative activities for a child of this age.
I have 3 children, one also has dyspraxia he finds it very hard to stay still but he can hyper focus on stuff he likes so i prepare that way. My youngest is only 14 months and he's not like my other 2, first flight coming up in a few weeks and i'll be honest i don't think it's going to be fun we have planned as many activities and distractions as possible but he is very difficult to keep still - even if he is watching a cartoon he is constantly moving...

Being a parent and flying is tough !!

sorry but you can't reason with a toddler who doesn't know what's going on.

Yep. Which is precisely why I'm worried about flying with a 16 month old. Many of the strategies that would work with an older child of say 3 or above, will just not work with an infant who has absolutely no understanding and very limited communication abilities! I'm so worried that I'm going to be judged if she cries and I can't make her stop. 😫