To expect MIL to work

[Lillonely]

Apologies for double posting but DH and I are getting into a Barney on this one.

This follows on from my previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4562595-polygamy-first-family-and-financial-trouble-need-some-perspective-here?page=1

Think I’ve linked that correctly, apologies if not…

So, I thought I found utopia for this solution til we got MIL to pension/ pension credit age. My mum knew a lady (who also knows MIL) who lends a hand in some restaurants in kitchen (well actually several, the family own a few Indian restaurants), they got her a good hygiene certificate and she does bits like prep samosas, make a few Asian desserts and then some cleaning, bit of prep, well she mentioned that they’d take on another person. The lady is the restaurant chain owners son (same age-ish as MIL) MIL wouldn’t have to take a bus, the owner would pick up her and his mum and take them. They could only offer like 16 hrs a week across the few restaurants but they all speak her mother tongue and then she could claim working tax credit. It will build up her NI too so she can claim a pension later.

i thought this sounds like a great idea? No status thing in question because she’s working with a lady (an aquitance who she knows ) of a similar age, definitely won’t be graft (it’s more of a favour), but DH thinks it’s unfair to ask her to go out and work? But given the situation this seems like the best option, could I get some thoughts here?

is it unreasonable for her, given the circumstances to feign working? Would be maybe 3 mornings/ afternoons a week?

thank you all, your advice was invaluable before!

I think this would be the making of your MIL. She already knows the other lady, she will be contributing to society and her own future. It sounds like a paid hobby really.

It sounds like your DH and your MIL do not want any solution that means she has to do something.

I would withdraw from this if this does not work and consider my options because this will bankrupt you and your children.

Nail on the head there! Anything that she has to do something is ‘too much’ and there’s one million excuses as to why

I’ve been very very clear, the money is not to come from us, no debt is to be accrued in the name of this, or he is simply choosing his mother over his children when in fact no choice needed to be made as she’s got options, and we’ll have to separate and there is no other way around it.

Op he cannot seriously think these restaurant owners are going to give her money for nothing?

The job itself does sound like a paid hobby. And will do her some good. But I wouldn't be employing someone who's never worked.

From what you said on the other thread OP, his other 'wife'/mistress has got most of the assets in her name now, so FIL may not actually be able to keep maintaining her even if he wants to. The idea that the restaurant are going to claim she's working there when she isn't, for no benefit to themselves, is clearly hatstand.

So at this point, what's DH's plan? If FIL doesn't have the money, and you can only manage a couple of hundred a month tops, there is a shortfall. It will have to be made up from somewhere.

Will he be talking to his dad in another language. The dad should hopefully understand that your H has support in his idea to put his children and his marriage before his mother's easy life.
I say that like ive no sympathy for her situation, i do but this situation that has landed on her lap is ideal.

DH needs to wake up to financial reality and take steps to ascertain his mother's current State Pension contribution status. That is quite easily done via Govt website.
Once he has that information, he needs to help her maximise her future State Pension. One possibility, is buying-back a limited number of additional annual credits. This is a hugely valuable option to many people who have not got quite enough NI credits on their record, but it's TIME LIMITED. So don't hang about.

Somebody mentioned power of attorney and if her pilgramage money could be taken to buy pension credits it'd be a relief, but i suppose that's quite expensive

She can claim pension credit once she's old enough even if she doesn't have sufficient state pension contributions, as things stand at least. She has Indefinite Leave to Remain, so it's an option. The problem is more what to do in the few years before that point.

Exactly it’s barmy for them to put her on the payroll basically fraudulently for her to claim income top up, they owe us nothing, why would they? Especially when there could be negative repercussions for them… I mean get real.

Well, apparently FIL has said to another elder that he’s still going to pay for her from secret funds..: fucking ridiculous. All hearsay, all rubbish, dh spoke to him on the phone and they were talking about it but ‘the line went funny’ so DH wasn’t sure what he said… stupid man

its ok for me to work but not her? Come off it.

It’s waaay to expensive to buy it back, he tried to call but he can’t speak on her behalf and she was being an idiot with the security questions, she can’t read her NI number …

she can get pension credit but it’s between now and then is the core issue.

he needs poa over her finances. That is literally step one.

im actually really fucking cross NONE of this was done before. It shouldn’t be on me to drive this. She’s nothing to me (cold but she’s not, I don’t know her finances, business or whatever)

I was going to reply to your other thread. This reply is about your other thread really, not this one about the job idea.

We are currently looking into voluntary National Insurance contributions in order to get State Pension for a family member in a similar-ish situation. If I've got it right, in order to get full state pension you need 35 years of contributions which costs around £30k (or you can pay less and get a partial state pension, as long as you have at least 10 years worth). Although £30k is a lot of money, it's actually a really good deal ... state pension is around £10k per year, so after 3 years of receiving pension it has paid for itself. If MIL lived for 20 years after pension age she'd be getting around £200k in total, and if she lives for 30 years she'd get more like £300k, which is a pretty good return on the £30k!

My question is, could you persuade FIL what a good deal this is (give him an idea of numbers as above) and get him to pay the £30k contribution, or failing that, part of it? Essentially MIL will then be getting a lot of free money that FIL won't have to pay for.

It sounds like convincing MIL into anything is impossible, so I wondered if convincing FIL was a better idea, especially if you can spin it as saving both FIL and DH a lot of money. Good luck, it sounds an absolute nightmare.

Also we had a nightmare getting online as we didn't have relevant ID. But you can do it on the phone - call the Future Pension Centre on 0800 731 0175 for a Pension Forecast. Then you can call HMRC on 0300 200 3500 to get bank details to pay it.

And as someone else said, there's a time limit - until April 2023 you can pay credits for 2006 onwards. But after that you'll only be able to pay for the previous 6 years. So actually I don't think you'll be able to pay the full £30k anyway.

This may be all be immaterial if no-one can pay it. But I wondered if FIL might.

Or possibly she can get Pension Credits. But my understanding is that if you have more than £10,000 in savings and investments (not sure if she owns a house?), then every £500 over £10,000 counts as £1 income a week, and your pension credit will be reduced by this much. So if you have £110k, your pension credit would be reduced by £200 per week i.e. you wouldn't get any. Do check this as I may have it wrong!

She’s claimed child benefit for some of the time and claimed so I think she must have 10 years
worth, so he’d have to top up around £20 then (roughly). I’ll put it to dH but I wouldn’t hold my breath that he’d do it, esp as she’ll be entitled to some + pension credit. It’s a great idea though :) x

YANBU.

But unless she agrees, or your DH agrees and is prepared to persuade / encourage her, you are stuffed.

So frustrating because she might find she enjoyed it. And was empowered by it.

it’s in our marriage contract that id divorce him if he wanted to marry again, and also he’d just never do it as he’s seen the utter shit show that it entails

Fair enough, OP, though that reminds me to ask (if I may) whether you're actually married in UK law? Come to that, are MIL/FIL?

Fair enough too that you've set you stall out about no money coming from your own family, and that it would be reason to separate if it did or if DH took out loans for her. Frankly though I'd make a few enquiries along these lines so at least you're prepared; of course you know DH best, but I'll be very surprised if he was prepared to go along with the above

Maybe paying the pension credits could be used as leverage for not divorcing him.?
Drafted up by a solicitor.
Mil would have to be on board though.
Otherwise your fil knows it's a meaningless chess move if she just wont divorce him.

After reading your last thread, I really feel for you, its a horrid situation to be in. Your poor DH is being made to feel guilty by his own mum for looking after his family.
I think you need to tell your DH that it is either you or his DM. He needs to stand up to her and tell her she should take on this job to help with her finances and that he cannot afford to subsidise her.
I am from a minority where married sons live with their parents as they are made to feel guilty if they left them. Luckily my own family are not like, neither are my in laws, but I know of plenty of families that are like that.
My own aunty on my dads side has been in England for the last 50years, has never worked and cannot speak english. Her husband my uncle passed away 5 years ago and her son is looking after her. He feels he can never leave her as she has no income of her own, cannot claim state pension. I blame my uncle for putting her in this position, he should have insisted she enroll in english language classes at the very least, maybe even have a part time job once the children were older.

Like I said on your last thread, this is an entirely batshit situation. I'd RUN a god damn mile!

FIL and MIL are legally married as it’s how she came here and got iltr.

im also legally married yes got married in the UK with a registrar present

it blows my mind that somebody can live in the uk for 50 years and not learn english. not judging, it's just really interesting how it's possible.

If MIL is legally married why can't she divorce & get half of the marital assets ?
Is there property?
Does FIL have a pension or a business?
Do they have savings ?
She cannot live on nothing for the next X years

Have you consulted a family solicitor?

@ChairPose9to5 Ive only seen this happen in cities with large same-minority populations. Eg Bradford. Your neighbours all speak your language, you mostly go to the Asian supermarket where they all speak your language, and even the cashiers in Morrisons might too. I met families who lived in Birmingham for 20 years and they'd never been to the city centre... They find everything within their own little micro-community so they have zero need to communicate with others.
It's like Brits in Dubai, very few will speak Arabic as they almost exclusively live in expat communities.

@ChairPose9to5
Do you know what is even more batshit?

She had no money, her kid had holes in his shoes, nothing but plain rice to eat. Yet she never made any attempt to get a job then. She could have done something 20 or 30 years ago to improve her situation but didn't.

Op I really don't think she will do anything to help herself now. You can only protect yourself.

I mean on paper obviously who wouldn’t but in practice or real life as posters have said my husband is someone who’s been abused by his parents his whole life. I know someone said an ultimatum but I’m not going to go down that route as things stand right now.

I can understand your predicament completely. I am South Asian.

When my husband and I got married. His parents moved in with us. The financial burden has been overwhelming. I have a lot of resentment towards my husband for putting me in such a situation.

All I can say is please protect your and your children's interests. Don’t let MIL emotionally blackmail you. It will eventually lead to resentment towards your husband in the long run.