To expect MIL to work

[Lillonely]

Apologies for double posting but DH and I are getting into a Barney on this one.

This follows on from my previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4562595-polygamy-first-family-and-financial-trouble-need-some-perspective-here?page=1

Think I’ve linked that correctly, apologies if not…

So, I thought I found utopia for this solution til we got MIL to pension/ pension credit age. My mum knew a lady (who also knows MIL) who lends a hand in some restaurants in kitchen (well actually several, the family own a few Indian restaurants), they got her a good hygiene certificate and she does bits like prep samosas, make a few Asian desserts and then some cleaning, bit of prep, well she mentioned that they’d take on another person. The lady is the restaurant chain owners son (same age-ish as MIL) MIL wouldn’t have to take a bus, the owner would pick up her and his mum and take them. They could only offer like 16 hrs a week across the few restaurants but they all speak her mother tongue and then she could claim working tax credit. It will build up her NI too so she can claim a pension later.

i thought this sounds like a great idea? No status thing in question because she’s working with a lady (an aquitance who she knows ) of a similar age, definitely won’t be graft (it’s more of a favour), but DH thinks it’s unfair to ask her to go out and work? But given the situation this seems like the best option, could I get some thoughts here?

is it unreasonable for her, given the circumstances to feign working? Would be maybe 3 mornings/ afternoons a week?

thank you all, your advice was invaluable before!

And yes , absolutely agree about the fear.

Your MIL is never in a million years going to work to earn a living. Her culture just doesn’t support that, and your husband knows it.

The problem you have isn’t your in-laws, it’s your husband. He is very much the abused and traumatised victim in all this, but even after all of that, he is still immersed in his family’s culture.

You need to protect your own family and your house and money. Start by making sure the house and car etc are in joint names. Ensure he can’t hand over money to his family without you knowing. Check your bank online regularly.

Your husband has/is being used as the scapegoat here, so FIL doesn’t have to pay out. You are going to need to make sure this doesn’t happen. Can you move further away from them? Failing anything else, I would seriously consider whether you can afford to stay with your husband.

I agree, and now I'm left with my mum and MIL who are totally dependent yet want the whole lifestyle. Luckily they can afford it but the mental load is tough.

My view is that she is your FIL's responsibility until he dies. So take a step back while he is paying for things. Also tell her that she's welcome to the pilgrimage but you don't have the money to take her. Do not interfere by telling her to get a job because she won't. She will guilt trip and nag because of her anxiety for a future that no one has control over, but at the moment she is being provided for and so don't worry about it.

Agree, she doesn’t have to work because you’re the meal ticket.

Time to start separating your money, so far as possible.

What a disgusting man your FIL is.

Discards one woman for the next.

Your husband isn't much better-expecting you to keep his Mum.

If he has always supported his mum I'm not sure that that will ever change.

Absolutely this.

You took on his debt years ago so why wouldn't he expect you to take on his family's.

You have been suckered into a financially abusive relationship with a man that is using you as a workhorse for his family.

You are not his primary family.

You need to stop arguing with him and start protecting yourself legally.

I have no doubt you will see a different side to him if you assert yourself.

I think you should explore coercive control from a legal stand point.

He is trying to force you to financially support his family against your wishes.

Either way you need good legal advice and detach emotionally from him.

Oh and tell your family the truth finally.

I presume you never told them you were marrying a man up to his eyeballs in debt.

This was your first big mistake.

Be honest with your family.

You need there support.

Stop wasting energy arguing.

Start planning.

It's normal in Asian culture to have multigenerational households so I think this is probably what is planned long term, your DH just hasn't told you yet.

I wonder who will take on all the extra housework/caring duties that will come out of that?

Although I’ve just had a look on op’s other thread and there are posts seriously suggesting she get a promotion and take more hours at work and stop being ‘mean spirited and selfish.’ She should just resign herself to the next 40 years (so her whole life basically) of paying for and caring for this woman. It’s so depressing.

If they are going to rely on what's traditional your FIL needs to treat both his wives equally, end of. It's not your husband's/their son's responsibility to get your FIL out of that responsibility. Really, your MIL needs to divorce him, but I guess that isn't going to happen.

I'm from another pan-Asian culture, but the responsibility of the DIL taking care of the in-laws has fallen to me. Not ideal, but my PIL is not an abusive asshole so the multi generational household works for us. It's not always easy, but there was no way I could do it if the PIL was abusive.

If you aren't going to leave - your husband needs to take a second job/massively increase his income to take care of his mother. BUT is this the dynamic you want your children to witness / internalise? Do you want this to be their life when they are adults?

DH thinks it’s unfair to ask her to go out and work?

Tell him you've decided not to work and he can support you for the rest of your lazy life as he supporting the leech that is his mother.
Anyone who has lived most of their life in a country and not bothered to learn the language is a taker who expects the world to support them.
She'll go on making excuses until the day she dies.

We asked about that, going back home and she really doesn’t want to, she wants to stay here, even though it may not seem like it, she likes it.

thing is, she’s not trapped perse because she can communicate but exclusively with people who speak her mother tongue

Also just on the question if DH and FIL are in cahoots to get my money… definitely not. It’s been 10 years and no one could keep up that level of dysfunction and it be an act.

DH knows we can’t pay and hasn’t asked me to, he wants his F to keep paying, my suggestion of her getting this little job is because you can’t get blood from a stone, if he refuses what then, you know

I don’t think your husband and his father are in cahoots to get your money! But…..it has been very convenient for everyone in this story that you have embraced the local culture where you live, and become a smart, independent woman who does not expect to be supported but goes out of the home ( which I believe you supplied) and earns enough money not just to cover your own needs but to contribute to the family survival.

What would their attitude be if you decided to adopt your MIL stance? You know, fold your hands, do some domestic work but no paid work outside the home? They’d all be ……let’s say, in considerable trouble.

it seems to me that your husband , his mother and from what you have said , the social arbitrators in this community have exhibited truly breathtaking double standards. Why isn’t your husband supporting you, if they are all so traditional? Forgive me if I misunderstand, but I thought that was what was expected? Basically, they give you no respect for your contribution, maybe even some condemnation ( egging your car) - but they are more than happy, they rely on , taking the proceeds.

I don’t think you can go on straddling two worlds like this, and I think your husband needs to decide where his loyalties lie. In other religions of the book, there is a saying that a man must leave his mother and father, and cleave to his wife. Because ultimately, that is a true marriage.

I wish you all the best in this awful situation.

Agree with @Allthegoodnamesarechosen

OP - you may not agree but you should act as if what @Vijia said is 100% true.

DH knows we can’t pay and hasn’t asked me to, he wants his F to keep paying, my suggestion of her getting this little job is because you can’t get blood from a stone, if he refuses what then, you know

In the short term, if you simply do not give her anymore money (because you can't afford to) she will not be destitute. I remember you saying on your other thread that she had money saved up (£10k-ish?) for a religious pilgrimage. Surely you can convince your DH that there is no need to be getting yourselves in to financial difficulties while she has this money sitting there.

I know this sum of money won't last for ever but maybe several months of no other income and no more financial support from her son might help to convince her that she has to do something about her situation

I think you need to lay out your budget. Infact 2 budgets. I would have a budget for your family - taking into account your current bills etc. And income. And then a second budget of what life would look like if you divorce DH.

I would share the first budget with your DH and ask him what his answer is as to where the money to support MIL comes from. If FIL is not an answer then either he commits to talking to FIL and you reconvene in a week when he has done so (give him a deadline) or he looks at other options. Clearly MIL has to work - but DH needs to accept that. DH needs to work out how his mother can be supported as HE is the one blocking this due to some misguided loyalty. Whatever you do is pointless if he is going to simply block/overrule.

(You could consider 'reducing' your income in the budget to create an escape fund for yourself and the kids or you could to be more 'open' add a line to the budget to support your parents equally to any support given to MIL too).

In order to protect yourself make sure your house is in joint names so he cannot sell it or take any loans against it to support his mother without you knowing. I would also keep any joint accounts low so they just cover the outgoings so he cannot take money from there. Make sure too that he cannot raid any kids savings. And I'd sign up to a credit agency so that you know if any new loans etc are being taken out - and make sure DH know this. I know you believe he didn't dupe you into this situation - but he isn't being honest with you is he?

I don't know whether this was corrected on the last thread - but your DH can absolutely get financial power of attorney for MIL and use it now so long as she agrees to it. She does not need to be incapacitated for the financial one (only the health one which is separate).

This would enable him to take control of her finances without any obligation to balance them so is worth looking at.

You also me tion she has gold... so she/he can liquidate that surely?

Tell him you've decided not to work and he can support you for the rest of your lazy life

Slight problem there - were OP to do this, what's to stop the DH deciding he, too, would like to take a second wife, who might be more amenable to supporting his family?

I would share the first budget with your DH and ask him what his answer is as to where the money to support MIL comes from. If FIL is not an answer then either he commits to talking to FIL and you reconvene in a week when he has done so (give him a deadline) or he looks at other options. Clearly MIL has to work - but DH needs to accept that. DH needs to work out how his mother can be supported as HE is the one blocking this due to some misguided loyalty. Whatever you do is pointless if he is going to simply block/overrule.

I'd agree with this. DH needs to be the one to work out exactly where the money to maintain MIL is going to come from if not work or benefits. The onus is on him.

the fact that it’s in our marriage contract that id divorce him if he wanted to marry again, and also he’d just never do it as he’s seen the utter shit show that it entails lol

Can you divorce him to protect your finances? You have a good job? If you get HALF of the assets and then that half is protected from his just giving it away then more will be there for your dc and you'll have power over that half.

Sorry, you have said you have a good job. There wasn't supposed to be a question mark after that.

Op if you divorced you'd be better off, he'd still need to pay maintenance money.

You are caught in a horrible situation but you need to decide what is right for you.

I agree mil should take the job it will do her confidence the word of good. And yes to POA. Then you'll be able to deal with pension and benefits claims

Sorry for lag, manic day at work, you know the type where everything goes wrong, one of my office days and I kid you not 10 mins In cup of coffee straight down me. Fgs. Anyway i digress, He knows we can’t pay for her, you can’t magic something out of nothing, it really is that straight forward. We have shared finances that our salary goes into and all of the bills come out of, then a pre agreed amount that we put into our savings (which thanks to all the lovely rises in every avenue except pay is a lot less) so there’s no where for him to siphon money. Plus he wouldn’t do that, it would be a huge breach of trust and it would make me question our marriage. I abhor liars, and FIL is a compulsive liar so I won’t tolerate that in a spouse. He earns more than me so we’ve worked out bills and that proportionately. Like I said in my OP I’ve got no real issue with him giving like £100 a month or something if we can afford it:

Hes just being stupid at this point, he thinks that restaurant should in essence put her on the books but not actually get her to work, so basically cheat the system. I’m not a fan of this idea, because it’s literally being part of the problem in terms of government cut backs and benefit cheats, UC for topping up wages isn’t a great deal of money so she can’t live off that and the guys at the restaurant are actually doing us a favour and willing to pay her for real, why would you ask them to do more and take the piss with it that could actually get them in trouble.

she’s got all these excuses why she can’t sign on, having to go from one side of the city to the other because she knew someone who had to do that and then her so was like ‘no mum it’s too much for you, I’ll just pay for you’ ….. hhmmm. Talk about a DH and a IL problem.

maybe, I don’t know, I can’t afford the mortgage alone that’s for sure and given LTV and Income multiples I doubt I could afford a house alone; let alone one big enough for 3 kids. Plus his family are ridiculous but I don’t actually want to divorce him, he just needs someone to give his head a wobble.

he thinks his dad should pay, so he’s arranging to talk to him on the weekend face to face about it, it might not sound it but that’s a big deal as they don’t really see each other. Even if he still pays I think it’s such a good opportunity for her, it’s independence, company, confidence and all of that with very very minimal effort, so I still think she should go for it then she can earn her own cash too