Page 13 | Can our wedding venue do this??? Any lawyers?!

RedWineRage · 2022-06-09T17:17:55+00:00

Posting here for traffic....and also some perspective/help/ideas! Getting married this summer. Reception venue is stately home-type place which is open to the public but also does weddings, has done successfully for years. Top listed wedding venue in various magazines etc and very good reviews. So - not some shady outfit. Email out of the blue this week - all rather breezy - due to several incidents at recent events, just to let you know we will no longer be serving red wine at all, with immediate effect. But don't worry, we'll just swap that out for rosé in your drinks package. What??? My mum only drinks red wine. Several family members prefer red wine. We planned to have beef as a main. Totally unacceptable, right? They appear to be relying on some woolly clause in the contract around "it's a historic building, changes may need to be made to your wedding plan that are out of our control due to operational reasons" etc. We're genuinely considering trying at short notice to get another venue, and trying to claim money back through small claims. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on how likely we are to be successful? My mum can't not have an alcoholic drink at my wedding. Sorry I'm ranting and probably not being very rational. Perspective and advice welcome!!

minipie · 10/06/2022 08:26

adlitem · 10/06/2022 08:02

The thing is OP that regardless of your legal position (which actually noone really can advise you on with any certainty without seeing the entire contract etc) noone can give you proper advice based on the facts you've given. Nor should they on an internet forum. While you could of course engage a lawyer to send out a letter on your behalf to show the venue you are serious, I'd watch out for lawyers offering to fight this "tooth and nail" or "to the end" on this, as they have their own interest to the tune of about £300 an hour. As I've said previously, I don't think you'd get very far either.

A good lawyer would tell you that your first port of call here shouldn't be legal action, it should be trying to resolve it through negotation, which of course might be based on each party's legal position. In the big picture, yes, it's super annoying and I can understand you are angry, but don't let your wedding day be taken over by legal disputes (and costs!). Legal disputes - whether they go to court - are stressful and adversarial (by their very nature) not to mention expensive. And I suspect if you go that route - even just exchanging legal letters from lawyers - it will sour your day and your relationship with the venue.

In my job I from time to time get angry people writing emotional DIY "legal" letters threatening to sue my company. Some even do sue (every single time on bad advaice from their lawyers as to their prospects of success and the best course of action). I can tell you in my 12 years in my current company none of them have gotten anywhere with it in terms of legal success. Although the ones that do engage with constructive talks are often offered solutions to try resolve the disputes, mainly because it's a headache and a cost to deal with litigation. Thank god most of my work is B2B.

Completely agree with all of this. And I am a litigator.

Try to work with the venue and see why they’ve changed the rules and what they might be willing to allow. Red wine at dinner only? With the beef only? For your mum only?

Legal action on this kind of thing is shooting yourself in the foot.

Ponoka7 · 10/06/2022 08:34

@Perplexed0522
"This is clearly a social class issue."
Yes, the WC won't eat without pairing their food with their wine 🙄. Or are you accusing the OP's guests of being old Eton boys and not being able to celebrate without alcohol?

I wonder if historic/stately houses are pulling this in Italy/France. I can't see it going down well.

OP as said you've had bonkers replies. A dry wedding is rare. It's usual to have a red with beef. Have a meeting with them. If it's still a no at the sit down meal, then negotiate changing your main. The venue has added extra restrictions to an important part of a wedding, after you've signed a contract. That's the issue.

Perplexed0522 · 10/06/2022 08:42

Ponoka7 · 10/06/2022 08:34

@Perplexed0522
"This is clearly a social class issue."
Yes, the WC won't eat without pairing their food with their wine 🙄. Or are you accusing the OP's guests of being old Eton boys and not being able to celebrate without alcohol?

I wonder if historic/stately houses are pulling this in Italy/France. I can't see it going down well.

OP as said you've had bonkers replies. A dry wedding is rare. It's usual to have a red with beef. Have a meeting with them. If it's still a no at the sit down meal, then negotiate changing your main. The venue has added extra restrictions to an important part of a wedding, after you've signed a contract. That's the issue.

I meant it’s a class issue in relation to the term “First World Problem” that I see used on the forum a lot.

It’s an observation, not a judgement.

I love threads like this, it’s like a form of escapism for me.

Borisblondboufant · 10/06/2022 08:54

I’ve no advice but Rose is not an alternative for red wine. Yuk.
I can’t tolerate white wine (or rose) probably because of the sugars in them, so I wouldn’t be happy.

123ROLO · 10/06/2022 09:03

SweetSakura · 10/06/2022 07:51

You say your priority is for guests to have a good time. But there's something wrong with the party if they can't have a good time sober.

I like a drink as muh as the next person, but a well arranged wedding with thoughtful seat arrangements and entertainment should be fun sober

I could have a good time sober. But I would have a better time being able to enjoy my favourite drink.

There are many things that I can enjoy without a drink, a nice meal, a country walk, adventure activities, day trips, cinema etc. I do many social activities sober and enjoy them plenty.

But a day of celebrations, dancing and mingling is made more enjoyable if I'm a tad merry 🍷

And there's nothing wrong with that.

babyjellyfish · 10/06/2022 09:42

SweetSakura · 10/06/2022 07:51

You say your priority is for guests to have a good time. But there's something wrong with the party if they can't have a good time sober.

I like a drink as muh as the next person, but a well arranged wedding with thoughtful seat arrangements and entertainment should be fun sober

I'm not a massive drinker, but the weddings I've been to when pregnant or driving have been way less enjoyable. Especially when you get to the end of the night and you're tired and everyone else is buzzing and you're on your 6th orange juice of the night.

PaddingtonBearStareAgain · 10/06/2022 09:45

A dry wedding is rare

There is nowhere where it is suggested that it is a dry wedding.

Laffinalltheway · 10/06/2022 09:53

Many years ago when I got married, our venue was No Smoking - long before it was compulsory. As there were a number of smokers going to be present, we were told to take out insurance against ciggie burns in the carpet etc.
Would this be an option you could put to the venue with red wine instead of cigs?

Limer · 10/06/2022 10:05

Surely there’s a potential Dragons’ Den idea here – non-spill toddler-style lidded cups to hold red wine. Or even just a lid that clips onto a standard size wine glass.

Could even have bespoke designs for posh weddings.

Anyone got Deborah Meaden's number?

Sunshinebug · 10/06/2022 10:14

If they won’t resolve the situation and you decide to stick with the venue, then perhaps take Mum to a good vintner for a wine tasting. I’ve always hated one colour of wine but when I explained my favourites of other wines, they found one I liked a lot despite the colour. With my eyes shut I could have sworn it was something else. Might be worth a try if all else fails. I can recommend Shawburys. They can come to your house.

Sunshinebug · 10/06/2022 10:16

Agree, I thought insurance at historic venues is usually requisite but if not should def be something to try.

Original poster

RedWineRage · 10/06/2022 10:34

Thanks everyone! Appreciate every response, even the ones telling me I'm being ridiculous are sort of helpful!
I've especially enjoyed the suggestions of how to sneak in wine - whoever posted the photo of the bag with the straw that really gave me a laugh, thank you!

Yes as PP have pointed out, such a venue is perfectly reasonable to have restrictions (there are a number of others we agreed to at the time of booking) but these need to be made up front. We would have chosen another venue had we known up front we wouldn’t be allowed red wine, as PP have said it's such a basic thing to have white or red at a sit down dinner. And (other than rage) the question re. legal position was really to understand what our alternative is - if they won't budge in the slightest, do we have to suck it up, or absolute worst case can we switch venue because they've breached contract? As with all these things that seems pretty grey. So we'll just have to really hope they will negotiate to some sort of compromise.

We're speaking to them soon, other than the change itself I'm also very annoyed at the way they've handled it via generic email and suggestion that it's not a big deal to simply switch to rosé. Thanks a lot for the suggestions, many of them have been really useful, and particularly appreciate the thoughts on involving my mum, thank you.

I know MN loves an update so I'll keep you informed. Feeling very slightly less enraged this morning which is progress...

OP posts:

Nothappyatwork · 10/06/2022 10:35

Hope upu have a lovely wedding OP

FOTB · 10/06/2022 10:41

RedWineRage · 10/06/2022 10:34

Thanks everyone! Appreciate every response, even the ones telling me I'm being ridiculous are sort of helpful!
I've especially enjoyed the suggestions of how to sneak in wine - whoever posted the photo of the bag with the straw that really gave me a laugh, thank you!

Yes as PP have pointed out, such a venue is perfectly reasonable to have restrictions (there are a number of others we agreed to at the time of booking) but these need to be made up front. We would have chosen another venue had we known up front we wouldn’t be allowed red wine, as PP have said it's such a basic thing to have white or red at a sit down dinner. And (other than rage) the question re. legal position was really to understand what our alternative is - if they won't budge in the slightest, do we have to suck it up, or absolute worst case can we switch venue because they've breached contract? As with all these things that seems pretty grey. So we'll just have to really hope they will negotiate to some sort of compromise.

We're speaking to them soon, other than the change itself I'm also very annoyed at the way they've handled it via generic email and suggestion that it's not a big deal to simply switch to rosé. Thanks a lot for the suggestions, many of them have been really useful, and particularly appreciate the thoughts on involving my mum, thank you.

I know MN loves an update so I'll keep you informed. Feeling very slightly less enraged this morning which is progress...

Yeah, the casual email would annoy me too. For something like this, you'd expect a personal phone call.

Most people I know only drink red or white, and I don't know anyone who drinks rosé. It would not be a welcome turn of events...

It would also wind me up, because as you say, the wine has been matched to the food. For me, food is a big deal - I think the bride and groom should always get to choose a menu that represents them/their tastes, and once you start mucking with the wine pairings, you get in the way of them having their ideal dishes.

SmugOldBag · 10/06/2022 10:56

Meraas · 09/06/2022 19:48

God this thread is depressing. Imagine wine being the most important thing on a wedding day.

It would be at mine. As it was at most of the friends weddings I've attended.

TeaKlaxon · 10/06/2022 11:40

Sarah3587 · 10/06/2022 00:01

REALLY OP…. Grow up and stop acting like a pathetic privileged madam.

Show quote history

A consumer expecting to get what they paid for is not a pathetic privileged madam (I mean OP probably is somewhat privileged but that’s not a reason she should not get what she paid for.

SeaDogs · 10/06/2022 11:56

Some very sanctimonious people on this thread.

It's quite normal to think about the catering when choosing a venue. I'd be pissed off too if the venue made a change like this after I'd booked. PMSL at people suggesting OP's mother sneaks a bottle of red in to drink in secret- sounds like something on Shameless, not how one imagines one's daughter's wedding!

OP, you have been very gracious here despite some daft posts on your thread. I'd be very clear with the venue that you're not happy. This isn't a situation beyond their control nor one that they could not have anticipated. I would be very clear with them that you consider it a breach of contract for the reasons above, if no dice then perhaps offer a sum to cover damages if any happen. If you still don't get anywhere suggest that red wine is served with dinner but not to guests walking around (if you would be happy with that) as a compromise- you would be being extremely reasonable in this case as I personally wouldn't accept that. Good luck.

SmartCarDriver · 10/06/2022 12:24

SweetSakura · 10/06/2022 07:51

You say your priority is for guests to have a good time. But there's something wrong with the party if they can't have a good time sober.

I like a drink as muh as the next person, but a well arranged wedding with thoughtful seat arrangements and entertainment should be fun sober

But not as much fun as one with some alcohol? I dance way better after a couple of glasses of red wine.

LookAtThatCritter · 10/06/2022 12:26

A little frustrating perhaps, but you're majorly overreacting. Your mum should be able to get through one day without an alcoholic drink!

WouldBeGood · 10/06/2022 12:26

I wound be horrified to go to a wedding with no red wine.

Original poster

RedWineRage · 10/06/2022 12:31

myyellowcar · 09/06/2022 18:50

Ohhh OP this reminds me of my wedding venue, it’s not venue initials S P is it?

@myyellowcar I missed this yesterday - not it's not - disappointing there appear to be two of them! What happened with yours?

OP posts:

SeaDogs · 10/06/2022 12:40

LookAtThatCritter · 10/06/2022 12:26

A little frustrating perhaps, but you're majorly overreacting. Your mum should be able to get through one day without an alcoholic drink!

I'm sure she can but it's not just any old day, is it?

worriedaboutmoney2022 · 10/06/2022 12:54

My friend got married in a castle and it was strictly no red wine but they told her this when booking - maybe this place should have told you? Or maybe there has been a spillage incident since booking.

I would Speak to them and see what they say - perhaps it's in the small print and if not and they hadn't mentioned it perhaps inconvenient but I wouldn't say a game changer especially if everything else about the venue is lovely.

It's very sad that you are letting such a minor detail spoil your special day - your mum will have to have an alternative and crack on with it - honestly I've never heard anything so dramatic

worriedaboutmoney2022 · 10/06/2022 12:55

And as for sneaking red wine in

Imagine the embarrassment of asking mother of the bride to leave!!!!!

I agree with other posters it would be like an episode of shameless

SmartCarDriver · 10/06/2022 13:35

LookAtThatCritter · 10/06/2022 12:26

A little frustrating perhaps, but you're majorly overreacting. Your mum should be able to get through one day without an alcoholic drink!

I'm sure she can, but it's not just one day it's her daughters wedding day. Not a random Tuesday in October.