Can our wedding venue do this??? Any lawyers?!

[RedWineRage]

Posting here for traffic....and also some perspective/help/ideas!

Getting married this summer. Reception venue is stately home-type place which is open to the public but also does weddings, has done successfully for years. Top listed wedding venue in various magazines etc and very good reviews. So - not some shady outfit.

Email out of the blue this week - all rather breezy - due to several incidents at recent events, just to let you know we will no longer be serving red wine at all, with immediate effect.

But don't worry, we'll just swap that out for rosé in your drinks package.

What???

My mum only drinks red wine. Several family members prefer red wine. We planned to have beef as a main.

Totally unacceptable, right? They appear to be relying on some woolly clause in the contract around "it's a historic building, changes may need to be made to your wedding plan that are out of our control due to operational reasons" etc.

We're genuinely considering trying at short notice to get another venue, and trying to claim money back through small claims. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on how likely we are to be successful?

My mum can't not have an alcoholic drink at my wedding. Sorry I'm ranting and probably not being very rational.

Perspective and advice welcome!!

Diabetics won't necessarily be able to drink Rosé or white instead of lower sugar red. We have a huge amount in our family (inherited faulty gene)

Can you ask whether red wine could be served at the table but not anywhere else?

Haven’t RTFT, but I think this is pretty ridiculous, tbh. Red wine is a standard drink, I’d expect it anywhere.

I agree with asking for a meeting with the venue and discussing the options and letting them know that it's an issue for you. They may be willing to compromise or you may find that you are willing to compromise.

They probably just assumed that it wouldn't be a big deal.

Maybe it’s why he likes his ladies to wear red, avoid awkward stains. 😆

A whole thread of creative ways to do this here.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2991753-Smuggling-alcohol-into-a-wedding-reception

God heaven forbid.

a pint of milk goes with beef too if you use your imagination.

if this is something to change wedding venues over I’d suggest serving fruit shoots instead.

Sounds bizarre and I’d be very pissed off. YANBU

Rose wine is not a substitute for red.

I've come across venues which have said no red wine. It is unfortunate, but usually means they are a really beautiful venue. Rather than start threatening to sue, it might be better to work with them - tell them you appreciate the problem, but you specifically chose their venue because they didn't have a red wine policy so it's disappointing they've started it now, but could you provide a suitably sized (refundable) deposit against any damage instead? Then get your mum to cover it if she's so desperate for red. Perhaps also suggest only serving red with the meal and then stopping, so that people aren't hammered/ taking red wine onto the dance floor and the risk of accidents is less?

I've come across venues which have said no red wine. It is unfortunate, but usually means they are a really beautiful venue. Rather than start threatening to sue, it might be better to work with them - tell them you appreciate the problem, but you specifically chose their venue because they didn't have a red wine policy so it's disappointing they've started it now, but could you provide a suitably sized (refundable) deposit against any damage instead? Then get your mum to cover it if she's so desperate for red. Perhaps also suggest only serving red with the meal and then stopping, so that people aren't hammered/ taking red wine onto the dance floor and the risk of accidents is less?

I don’t think you are being unreasonable - and I’m also totally not surprised at the way this thread has, for the most part, gone.

MN has a disproportionate number of anti-social, teetotal, reclusive hermits, who love nothing more than sitting indoors, only ever speaking with their DH and DC - and maybe their Mum if they’re feeling reckless.

At our wedding, the two biggest budget items were the band, and the food and drink. We wanted everyone to have a good time, so great music and an open bar. No red wine wouldn’t have been an option, especially as it’s DH’s tipple of choice. We had our reception in a winery, so no red wine literally was not an option.

There have been some really good suggestions - hopefully you can come to a good resolution. And ignore the people who wouldn’t know a good time if it picked them up and spun them around the dancefloor. 🍷🎵

Guests will understand if an historic venue. Your venue preference and wedding is priority over guests’ drink favourites. I’d def agree to change main course, expect a discount on the replacement rose and/or some extra champagne and if it’s a summer wedding see if they’d agree to red wine outside?

YANBU for being irritated and I don't drink wine. On your wedding day there are usually certain things that are a must and others you would let slide - this is obviously something you very much want. I know some people will not touch rosé. The only thing you can really do is talk to the venue and let them know that you would not have booked with them if they had had this rule in place and see if they could compromise in some way. If they won't maybe change the beef to something appropriate for white? If you feel very strongly about it, then you could change venues, but that seems pretty drastic.

Ignore the, frankly silly, "why does your mum have to drink?" comments. My mum would be exactly the same, would be very upset not to have wine at a social event and is very fussy about her wines! Although she would be happy with white or fizz but definitely not rosé

What a nasty snarky comment, speak to OP like a child.

This is what’s wrong with so many weddings. Surely if you are inviting guests to a do it should be a priority to make it a good day for them?

I would have been pretty pissed off with this. We are foodies and some of my husband's relatives are very into their wine so this would have been in issue. One venue we looked at (Dulwich Picture Gallery) had a no red wine or curry policy but this was made clear when we viewed the venue before the booking stage.

It's really not on of the venue to move the goalposts and I am not sure the clause quoted covers the change as it is not something out of their control. I'd push them to at least agree to red wine with the meal.

And ignore the people who wouldn’t know a good time if it picked them up and spun them around the dancefloor. 🍷🎵

You mean people who don't agree with you. I can have a good time without red wine, funnily enough. As can many people.

You are massively overreacting.

The suggestions that your mother sneak a bottle of red in her handbag or a gift bag 🙄 How would that really work in practice? She’s going to keep it by her feet and keep dipping down for it ? So somehow the waiters aren’t going to notice ? Other guests who prefer red but haven’t smuggled a bottle in in their clutch bags or suit pockets are going to think it’s perfectly normal that one person is drinking red ? Or would the OP be emailing everyone with smuggling suggestions - which would strike me as entirely bonkers if I was a guest.

Change the main.

it is a historic venue , not a restaurant! The chief responsibility is preserving the condition of the building and its contents

I really do get this, though why only red wine? Are they going to ban coffee, blackcurrant cordial and whatever else as well?

It's true that this may not be a massive deal worthy of changing the venue, but perhaps if such places want the £££££ from hosting weddings they need to think a bit harder about whether their properties are really suitable

You say your priority is for guests to have a good time. But there's something wrong with the party if they can't have a good time sober.

I like a drink as muh as the next person, but a well arranged wedding with thoughtful seat arrangements and entertainment should be fun sober

I’m amazed that people are so snarky with the OP - I’d have been really cross. Red wine is completely standard. People would expect it. My mum went to a party (the neighbours, not Chris de Burgh!) and was really sniffy when they said they didn’t have red wine because of the carpets. In that situation, I thought she was being unreasonable to be miffed; their house and all that and, as others have said, there are other things to drink. But this is a hospitality venue, selling upmaket catering. It’s a totally different kettle of fish.

If I went to a friend’s house and they served a roast dinner and offered me rice instead of roast potatoes, I wouldn’t think much of it and would be grateful someone else had cooked my dinner. If I’d arranged an event and sorted out a roast dinner for my guests and was later told “we aren’t providing potatoes any more, but you can choose rice or pasta to be served”, I’d be really cross. Because it’s not what you signed up to, it’s something that will be obviously odd to many people and actually may totally spoil the meal for some. Red and white wine is totally standard for weddings and most formal dinners. It’s not a minor thing to change.

The thing is OP that regardless of your legal position (which actually noone really can advise you on with any certainty without seeing the entire contract etc) noone can give you proper advice based on the facts you've given. Nor should they on an internet forum. While you could of course engage a lawyer to send out a letter on your behalf to show the venue you are serious, I'd watch out for lawyers offering to fight this "tooth and nail" or "to the end" on this, as they have their own interest to the tune of about £300 an hour. As I've said previously, I don't think you'd get very far either.

A good lawyer would tell you that your first port of call here shouldn't be legal action, it should be trying to resolve it through negotation, which of course might be based on each party's legal position. In the big picture, yes, it's super annoying and I can understand you are angry, but don't let your wedding day be taken over by legal disputes (and costs!). Legal disputes - whether they go to court - are stressful and adversarial (by their very nature) not to mention expensive. And I suspect if you go that route - even just exchanging legal letters from lawyers - it will sour your day and your relationship with the venue.

In my job I from time to time get angry people writing emotional DIY "legal" letters threatening to sue my company. Some even do sue (every single time on bad advaice from their lawyers as to their prospects of success and the best course of action). I can tell you in my 12 years in my current company none of them have gotten anywhere with it in terms of legal success. Although the ones that do engage with constructive talks are often offered solutions to try resolve the disputes, mainly because it's a headache and a cost to deal with litigation. Thank god most of my work is B2B.

Oh Christ absolutely not. In real life, plenty of people want a drink and, gasp, enjoy it!!! at a wedding. It hardly makes you a raging alcoholic to want a drink at a wedding.

I would be really disappointed at attending a dry wedding if I didn’t know in advance. In real life, many many people would be.

This is clearly a social class issue.

Asking about Lawyers because there won’t be red wine at your wedding?

Some people really need to get a grip about what actually matters in life.

Being expected to eat beef without a glass of red wine really isn’t an issue that requires legal action.

Enjoy your wedding OP - and perhaps suggest to your mother that she stays at home if not being able to have Red Wine is going to ruin the day for her.