To be concerned that the Depp/Heard trial has put off genuine DV victims from coming forward?

[PetraBP]

The Depp/Heard trial was troubling to me.

On the one hand, people do sometimes make false allegations, especially after relationship breakups.

On the other hand, dragging someone to court for alleging domestic violence might deter some women from reporting it.

Assuming the court got it right and Depp was not a perpetrator, how could he have handled the situation so that it would not put domestic violence victims off coming forward for fear of being sued?

Worrying all round.

bigfootisreal · Today 14:02

I am saying distress is normal in response to experiences.

It is but it's pretty poor at explaining chronic depression, schizophrenia or anorexia.

You seem to be so keen not to stigmatise people that you're denying there are any forms of abnormal behaviour at all and everything is just a normal response to environmental factors.

I think this is fairly obviously wrong. Some people are clearly having problems which aren't conveniently explained by environment, particularly as two people can respond differently to the same exact situation.

Even if the cause is purely environmental that doesn't mean the resulting behaviour is healthy for the one experiencing it or for those around them. It can be distress in response to experiences and still be atypical and harmful.

Certainly all are abnormal if they are called 'disorders'? No I wouldn't call them psychopaths at all.

Are you saying no-one is born with limited degrees of empathy and a tendency to violence or that those that are are as normal as someone with greater levels of empathy?

And what exactly would you call a psychopath?

I do think that some victims will avoid coming forward because of this, though we don't have televised trials in the UK and most will know that the average media outlet isn't going to be all that interested in their individual case. I do think that males coming forward with DV allegations will rise and this is a good thing. I believe that there are HUGE numbers of men being abused (often psychologically/coercively) by women but are too embarrassed to admit it.

That said I do think Depp did a few things masterfully here (not in a good way, just so effectively):

1. He got a female to cross examine Heard knowing that a male lawyer would have been seen as bullying
2. He showed emotion, was cool and calm and owned some of the stuff he was accused of
3. He didn't display anger in court whilst he knew Heard couldn't help herself in leaking anger and loathing. He also knew that she comes off as cold and aloof and that the public don't like that.
4. He essentially gave her (and others like her) the message "come at me and I will ruin you".

I do think some of Depp's behaviour certainly looks controlling. He seemed determined to destroy her career and prove he is still an icon in Hollywood and he certainly achieved those goals. His connections with the media certainly helped him out in many ways.

@PetraBP

I don't think its his problem if people don't want to come forward after this.

As awful as it sounds, his main aim was to show people that they shouldn't f* with powerful men and to destroy her career. I suspect he has little concern for victims in the real world.

buttersbottom
I don't think it is at all. All have a root cause.

particularly as two people can respond differently to the same exact situation. trauma responses differ as per person.

Even if the cause is purely environmental that doesn't mean the resulting behaviour is healthy for the one experiencing it or for those around them. Is there any statement I made that said this? No.

No one is born with empathy, it develops over time.

It's funny because when I left my abusive ex I wasn't left alone to just get on with my life. The only person in the JD and AH case that is not moving on, is AH, despite her claims to want to. The thing I don't think she's clever enough to realise, is she's doing even more damage to herself and victims.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious
Who was to blame for victims not getting justice before then? Victims rarely had the chance to get justice before this and were abused by the perpetrators and society when they reported. People are acting like all someone had to do before was report and it was easily sorted. Far from it, victims before were labelled as mental, abused and threatened with rape and death and hurt even more. They were also not supported by police or society, so what has changed? Nothing.

I'm not saying she's solely to blame due to this, but to pretend her actions are not having an impact is just silly. I believe my words were 'even more'.

It's always been hard for either sex to prosecute for DV, it's not new. And things like this don't help. Her going on a tv show has not helped her case one bit. All it's shown people is she continues to repeat her claims and is still in love with JD.

bigfootisreal · Today 15:30

I don't think it is at all. All have a root cause.

You're playing with language here. Everything has a root cause. A mental disorder would have a root cause

trauma responses differ as per person.

They do indeed. The question is why and if some of those responses can be called abnormal and a disorder.

"Even if the cause is purely environmental that doesn't mean the resulting behaviour is healthy for the one experiencing it or for those around them." Is there any statement I made that said this? No.

It is certainly implied whether you intended that or not if you are determined to undermine the very concept of mental health and abnormal and disordered behaviour.

No one is born with empathy, it develops over time.

I'm not sure that's true. Most of us are born with the capacity for empathy which psychopaths seem to lack. Sociopaths might be created but psychopaths appear to be born that way.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious
Let's not ignore the impact he will have on abusers in giving them more power to threaten legal action. This is how it will impact on victims. It'll also impact on male victims in the same way.

buttersbottom
The root cause is not biological though.

They are all disorders in their labels so all people with mental health issues are disordered and abnormal by their very labels hence why I don't agree with them.

No it wasn't implied at all. At no point was that ever something implied, you implied it for no reason at all.

bigfootisreal · Today 16:22

Let's not ignore the impact he will have on abusers in giving them more power to threaten legal action. This is how it will impact on victims. It'll also impact on male victims in the same way.

I'm not sure much has changed. You've never been able to make accusations against someone for serious crimes without evidence and not face dangerous consequences for doing so. If she'd gone to the police with a genuine case of domestic violence she would have been in a much safer position than publishing false accusations in a newspaper.

The root cause is not biological though.

How do you know? There seems to be a predisposition for mental problems, self-destructive and anti-social behaviour in some people which suggest a biological cause. The fact that two people can react differently to the same stresses suggests an environmental answer isn't the only answer.

They are all disorders in their labels so all people with mental health issues are disordered and abnormal by their very labels hence why I don't agree with them.

You haven't proved that. You could as easily say a cold is a reaction to wearing damp clothes for too long and it isn't a disease at all and we shouldn't label it as a disorder of the body so as not to stigmatise people with the sniffles.

No it wasn't implied at all. At no point was that ever something implied, you implied it for no reason at all.

Perhaps a better way of putting it would be that is the logical conclusion of your train of thought.

If she'd gone to the police with a genuine case of domestic violence she would have been in a much safer position

Not at all, the police largely do not support victims of abuse even with evidence. I say this as someone with a confession from my rapist who's actions were excused by the police. He stopped eventually so what was my issue? It is to be expected now? It didn't last long so why are you upset? My story is not unique. I am still at risk of abuse from my rapist, not supported at all, the threats are still there.

How do you know?
The creators of the mental health manual admitted that there are no biological markers for anything in that book. People within the field have admitted there are no tests to prove a link biologically. Also how do you explain lockdown if biology was in play? So many mental health issues as a result can't do down to significantly more people born with predispositions that all suddenly came out during lockdown? Lockdown supports the environmental factor.

You haven't proved that. They are called disorders - personality 'disorders', grief 'disorder', bipolar 'disorder' the very name disorder is in the label.

No it wasn't a logical conclusion at all, you decided that and placed that on me as if I had said it, you are the one saying that, not me. I've said it twice now that was not the case and you are still ignoring it.

bigfootisreal · Today 16:48

Not at all, the police largely do not support victims of abuse even with evidence. I say this as someone with a confession from my rapist who's actions were excused by the police. He stopped eventually so what was my issue? It is to be expected now? It didn't last long so why are you upset? My story is not unique. I am still at risk of abuse from my rapist, not supported at all, the threats are still there.

I can't comment on your personal history but the danger I was referring to was legal proceedings against accusations made in public. Any accusation, even if true, comes with the danger of legal action if you can't substantiate what you say. Amber would have been safe from that by going to the police. She would also have been safe at trial if she hadn't obviously been lying about the whole thing.

The creators of the mental health manual admitted that there are no biological markers for anything in that book. People within the field have admitted there are no tests to prove a link biologically. Also how do you explain lockdown if biology was in play? So many mental health issues as a result can't do down to significantly more people born with predispositions that all suddenly came out during lockdown? Lockdown supports the environmental factor.

I don't deny that environmental factors are a cause of mental health problems. What I think unlikely is that they are the only cause nor do they explain why different people act differently under the same circumstances.

You haven't proved that. They are called disorders - personality 'disorders', grief 'disorder', bipolar 'disorder' the very name disorder is in the label.

You think bipolar disorder has is purely a reaction to a bad environment?

No it wasn't a logical conclusion at all, you decided that and placed that on me as if I had said it, you are the one saying that, not me. I've said it twice now that was not the case and you are still ignoring it.

We'll have to disagree there.

Any accusation, even if true, comes with the danger of legal action if you can't substantiate what you say. Amber would have been safe from that by going to the police.

Untrue, men are already threatening victims they are abusing. Abuse is about power, victims already doubt they will be believed, they know men get off with almost all things anyway. They know a man's word is more powerful so the threat is there even with evidence as evidence for a woman is useless in most instances.

What I think unlikely is that they are the only cause nor do they explain why different people act differently under the same circumstances.
Everyone acts differently in all situation regardless of mental health or not.

Excited about Christmas - some will not sleep, others will contain themselves. That is human nature, we are all different. Would you also question why that happens? Nope, so why other things?

We'll have to disagree there.
You continue to make up lies then.

I do think some of Depp's behaviour certainly looks controlling. He seemed determined to destroy her career.

Yet if she was making false serious allegations which I believe affected his career then I wouldn’t call that controlling. It is someone seeking revenge but I would not call it controlling. I would only call it controlling if the allegations were true.

@bigfootisreal, I don’t think you have answered what you think about the causes of schizophrenia? Are you saying that you think schizophrenia is a result of trauma?

He has a right to defend himself if he says the allegations are false. Why shouldn't he?

Assuming the court got it right and Depp was not a perpetrator, how could he have handled the situation so that it would not put domestic violence victims off coming forward for fear of being sued?

Depp was looking at defending hus,name, both personally and professionally. Why should he be forced not yo defend his name just in case it affects an unknown other person? If you're assuming the court got it right, then surely victims will be encouraged to come forward as they will be believed.

after letting her interview sink in it’s back to have more questions than actually getting answers. Why was the therapist notes not delved into more in the interview. Elaine informed us at the beginning that Bonnie Jacobs was going to be an important witness who as Depp therapist could of discussed her notes about Amber. Why would therapist notes be allowed in without the therapist to ensure the notes validity and context. The notes were viewed by Hughes and Curry. Looking back on the website Depp signed the medical waiver but it appears Heard might not of. Otherwise it could be a case of only selecting notes beneficial and removing any damaging notes. This has just led to more weaponising on both sides.

Therapists notes are only heresay, they are what the client told the therapist, they are not proof of anything.

People should not refer to Bonnie J being her "doctor". She is a PhD doctor, not a medically trained doctor. There is a huge difference.

One of the most awkward parts of the trial for me was watching Depps therapist recount Depps therapy sessions. Hughes herself brought into court the bottle sexual assault which was direct from Amber and Hughes used bonnie Jacobs notes to form her opinion. So whilst the notes are hearsay it still doesn’t explain why bonnie Jacobs couldn’t testify and bring the notes in that way. That is the question I would have liked asked.

Dunno, lots of people on her witness list didnt give evidence.

I do think something needs to be done now.

Pics taken in TK Maxx and now allegedly a tell all book?! She doesn't care about the consequences and has no respect for justice and the court system.

She's taking the piss.