I’m worried about this family.

[CrikeyMatron]

Since Covid started friends of ours who live very locally have been shielding.

One of their DC has CP and they have a few other DC too including a teenager.

The DC were taken out of school to protect the vulnerable child and have now not physically seen/been with their peers or any other people for nearly 2 and a half years.

We’ve tried to stay in touch and asked about a socially distanced meet up but the parents aren’t keen. They told us their original plan was to to isolate until vaccines became available for all their DC.

This has now happened but there’s no sign of any change.

We know that the family rarely leave the house and have managed to holiday in fairly isolated SC accommodation a few times. They make sure they avoid people when on holiday and get all shopping delivered when there.

We’re especially worried about the teen DD. She hasn’t seen any peers (she had a robust friendship group before Covid) for such a long time and her friends have reported that communication has petered out with her over this time.

The DD is quite a bit older than her siblings and we suspect her MH has taken a hit (her parents mentioned her anxiety in passing).

I really empathise with how frightening it must be worrying about their disabled DC but think they’ve got bunker mentality and don’t see an end to their isolation 🙁

Has anyone got any advice please?

and that is those families, presumably with their medical specialists advise, choice. Not all people with the same condition will make the same choice.

I actually self-referred to SS, it was recommended by my DD's teacher because it would be a way for us (DD) to get seen by CAMHS more quickly. The women who we dealt with were great but I have heard if you happen to have someone who takes a dislike to you it can be difficult.

This "covid is endemic" claim is not supported by scientists - nor is what it means for it to be endemic.

I mean, first of all, it is very resoundingly supported by scientists. They may disagree on what stage we are at in the process, but I don't see any voices saying that isn't going to happen.

Secondly what do you think? That it's going to go away?

I agree. We were victims of a malicious referral to ss and the investigation was traumatic and unfair. It seems ss woukd rather cast the net far and wide just in case which then catches innocent families too

The ending of testing reduced the gov rates - not the ending of restrictions! The figures are totally unreliable now. We personally look at Zoe data, the ONS survey and local hospitalisation rates when making decisions about how much to go out.

I disagree with the idea that the light touch restrictions had no effect and so do most scientists.

They are for a while, but then they wane significantly. Why wouldn't you want longer lasting, more effective immunity? You sound rather anti vax tbh here which I shouldn't be surprised about given your attitude on this thread.

Ours was AWFUL

Evil HT maliciously referred (she kept calling saying she had no specific concerns but felt something was wrong. We got a SAR so saw all the call details).
When told it wouldn’t meet the threshold for investigation she took it upon herself to arrange meetings and talk to others to basically collect gossip and find anyone willing to badmouth me under the ‘I’m a professional’ umbrella . Thick as mince ex nursery manager decided to and they made up a load of false allegations. They presented it to SS who then had to do a CP investigation.

The whole thing was harrowing. I can’t even work out why they did it. We had asked for some extra support at school but nothing else had happened at all.

OP it’s up to you what you do but make sure if you refer that you present facts only and not opinion. If this family need investigation it needs to be fair

This "covid is endemic" claim is not supported by scientists - nor is what it means for it to be endemic.

Whether or not it proves to be endemic isn't relevant right now. What's clear is that it isn't going to vanish overnight this year, next, or in all likelihood the one after that. Therefore everyone has to develop their own appropriate and sustainable strategy for living life.

It will only be an extremely small part of the population that will require to continue such extreme shielding. And how many children in that position would have been in mainstream education before Covid if there was such a critical risk from communicable respiratory infections?

They are for a while, but then they wane significantly.

Not on preventing severe disease they dont. They're holding up incredibly well on that score.

To be perfectly honest, it's you that seems a bit anti vax.

The figures are totally unreliable now. We personally look at Zoe data, the ONS survey and local hospitalisation rates when making decisions about how much to go out.

okay then - what rates are you comfortable with?

I disagree with the idea that the light touch restrictions had no effect and so do most scientists

you can disagree all you like, but there isn't a shred of evidence that they did make a difference and lots of circumstantial evidence comparing countries with them and without them that they didn't.

As already pointed out upthread, they aren't invisible. Kids taken out from school are known to the EOTAS team at the council and will be being monitored already. Just because the OP hasn't been in touch with them it doesn't mean no one has!

I'm glad you didn't find SS involvement so bad. That doesn't mean it won't be for this family. Not everyone's experiences are the same. Many people have had absolutely awful times with SS involvement. This thread shows just how poorly many people understand the choices that CEV folk are having to make right now - if they get a SS officer who thinks that way and tries to force the kids back to school they could end up with a dead kid instead of a vulnerable one. That's a pretty big downside.

NSPCC or social services

I think most people are just doing what they feel is best for their family, as is their right. Covid-19 is new, it is exceptionally transmissible and with a higher morbidity and mortality rate than comparably transmissible diseases. The concern about mental health is valid, but initial research shows it’s definitely a mixed picture at best, with some child population’s MH deteriorating during the pandemic and others in fact improving when compared to pre-pandemic baseline.

These effects were different for different sub-population types so a child with pre-existing MH problems may have improved, older teen MH maybe have either improved or deteriorated, and children in families experiencing economic hardship may have deteriorated especially if the economic hardship first emerged during the pandemic. All of these studies are correlational, meaning it’s hard to really tell if one factor causes the other, and are largely taking place against a backdrop of a decade long trend of increasing mental ill health among children.

My point is it’s messy, so you may feel certain in your conviction of what’s good for these children but plenty of people who think about these things for a living still aren’t sure, maybe allow for the possibility of doubt? Here’s a interesting summary article about children’s MH outcomes during the pandemic. Impact of Covid on child mental health -Harvard Gazette

Parent’s such as the ones referred to in the original post, are trying to balance all of these factors and may well come to a different conclusion to you. I wouldn’t underestimate their motivation to research this stuff more thoroughly than most people, so maybe assume this and talk directly to them and learn a bit about why they’ve made the decision they’ve made.

Point taken that being investigated by social services isn’t that big a deal, perhaps it’s not, I think I would find it hard to trust my community if I thought the reporting had come anonymously from one of them- but that’s just me.

I think most people are just doing what they feel is best for their family, as is their right

Sure, but the minimising of no in-person, social contact outside of immediate family - for two and a half years and counting - feels very concerning to me.

I love this idea that you saying something means I have to agree or I'm wrong - that your opinion is fact! Hilarious! Even the gov agree that protection wanes: ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2022/02/10/how-well-do-vaccines-protect-against-omicron-what-the-data-shows/ Given that large swathes of the population haven't had a booster since last year it's no surprise that we are seeing hospitalisations starting to rise as BA4/5 grow.

When considering protection for vulnerable households you aren't just looking at "does it protect from severe illness" - you're looking to stop transmission to the vulnerable person. Current covid vaccines don't stop onwards transmission, but they do reduce it substantially.

It's not antivax to recognise the limitations of a vaccine. It is to suggest that better vaccines aren't needed as you've had one already, as though having more and better vaccines is somehow bad.

I've read so many comments from people like you that just believe the nonsense printed by the tabloids about restrictions not working and covid being over. If you were someone I knew in real life I wouldn't be in touch with you much at all right now - so to you my kids would look isolated and hidden. But for those that know us, who look beyond the headlines and the wishing that covid was over and actually engage with the data coming from scientists the world over, they also know the many ways that we are keeping our kids in contact with other kids and how we are working to maintain their mental health and development through this awful time.

And I'm out now - arguing with people who think they know it all about covid when they really don't is tedious and I would rather spend time with my poor, hidden, traumatised and isolated children. ;)

I hope the OP will reach out to the family she is worried about rather than anything drastic like contacting SS. People jump to that as though its the only option but it really isn't. Maybe they'll be glad to hear from a friend and she'll be happy to have her mind put at rest.

I've read so many comments from people like you that just believe the nonsense printed by the tabloids about restrictions not working and covid being over.

There isn't a shred of actual data that minimal restrictions work against omicron. There have been requests from many posters on many threads and absolutely nothing forthcoming. If you have anything though, please share.

And no one here is saying covid is over. The opposite in fact, it isn't going to be over, or not anytime in the foreseeable.

Even the gov agree that protection wanes

Your link quite clearly demonstrates that the vaccines continue to give very high protection against severe illness and death. Which is excellent news in fairness.

The trouble with the OP 'reaching out' to the family themselves initially is that if the OP then finds that something truly is amiss, and seeks SS help, then the family will know / strongly suspect it was the OP that referred, and there could be recriminations/revenge of some sort.

report, if the concern is the parents are inappropriately closing their children off from the world then I assume SS will speak to whoever they need to in regards to the children's healthcare to ascertain whether the parents are making reasonable judgements.

I am guessing if the are CEV they would be in the care of medical professionals and would be discussing shielding etc with them.

I have a CEV friend who is still shielding - she is absolutely fine, her CEV means that the vaccine might not give her the antibodies she needs. She is starting to think about going out a bit more over summer but won’t do so without obtaining a private antibody test first.

leave it between them and their medical care providers, SS is a dramatic step

That’s really concerning & probably doing untold damage to those children. You need to raise it with SS and let the authorities investigate further.

Completely agree, and just because someone on this thread is shielding themselves, it doesn't make them right about everything.

Two years without social contact with anyone other than their family? What a total nightmare for a young person. How damaging 😡

I have a friend with a very vulnerable little girl. She had leukaemia, and it's brutal treatment has left her with constant health issues and very low immunity. She is back out in the world, at school, enjoying the outdoors, building up her strength and friendships. Just as children should be.

I think you would be right to contact SS OP, sounds like even if nothing sinister is going on the family could do with some support.

I fully agree with pp who said SS should ask what would signal an end to the shielding.

Your said they’ve got teenagers, so what happens when those teenagers want some independence, to go into town, go to a party, go to the library, study a course that isn’t online, move out or go to uni? Will they no longer be able to see their family?

As rational as some posters think this is you cannot keep an entire family unit shielding for years on end

I can see why you're worried - it sounds like they have completely cut off contact with anyone outside their family bubble.

That's quite extreme - people I know who are CEV or will have vulnerable family members have been finding ways to meet safely for a long tim. Meeting outside, wearing masks, and asking people to take a lateral flow before meeting goes a huge way towards reducing risk, for example.

Report to social services op.

This is not your call to make, anything could be happening to the children and there is no contact with anyone apart form a brief message or two.

It is act of cruelty to cut children off from their school, life, friends and the outside world, along the lines of what happens to cults etc. If the parents have become so delusional and anxiety riddled that they can no longer see for themselves just how damaging this will be for their children then they desperately need intervention before it is too late.

It is not the same as home school. Home educators take their children to group classes, swimming, meet ups and language courses with other children and families all week. That is not what is happening here. They are being cut off completely and that is deeply troubling.

We have friends and friends children with terminal illnesses and that are seriously poorly and would be at real risk with covid, but their children still carry on with a normal life, because they recognise the damage it is causing cutting them out of normal life - the consequences could be very far reaching after this amount of time. Most have now caught covid and apart from one that needed a little intervention all were mild, and they recovered fully.

Do not hesitate op. Report them and know that you are doing exactly the right thing. The professionals will take a look and be able to assess them properly.
They could be suffering from untreated illnesses due to a lack of medical attention, desperately need dental treatment, malnourishment and/or lacking in vitamin D by being inside all of the time. I can't imagine what it has already done to their mental health and social skills. It is effectively a prison sentence. In fact a prison sentence would be better, at least they would see other people, have visitors and socialise with other inmates.

Good luck.

"If mental health is your concern, please do consider the impact of a dead sibling from covid brought home by the teenager from school/ socialising. That is what you are asking them to risk by saying they need to get back out in the world/let the siblings out."

Is Jodi Picoult still writing? There's definitely a "My Sister's Keeper" style story there somewhere.