I’m worried about this family.

[CrikeyMatron]

Since Covid started friends of ours who live very locally have been shielding.

One of their DC has CP and they have a few other DC too including a teenager.

The DC were taken out of school to protect the vulnerable child and have now not physically seen/been with their peers or any other people for nearly 2 and a half years.

We’ve tried to stay in touch and asked about a socially distanced meet up but the parents aren’t keen. They told us their original plan was to to isolate until vaccines became available for all their DC.

This has now happened but there’s no sign of any change.

We know that the family rarely leave the house and have managed to holiday in fairly isolated SC accommodation a few times. They make sure they avoid people when on holiday and get all shopping delivered when there.

We’re especially worried about the teen DD. She hasn’t seen any peers (she had a robust friendship group before Covid) for such a long time and her friends have reported that communication has petered out with her over this time.

The DD is quite a bit older than her siblings and we suspect her MH has taken a hit (her parents mentioned her anxiety in passing).

I really empathise with how frightening it must be worrying about their disabled DC but think they’ve got bunker mentality and don’t see an end to their isolation 🙁

Has anyone got any advice please?

Could you speak to the children’s previous school for advice?

I’m horrified that there are children still so isolated after all this time. Genuinely, when will families still shielding ever feel “safe” to emerge?

Do you have any evidence of the teen struggling or is it just what you would expect to happen?

There will be some interaction with authority in some capacity for the children, the school they were registered with at first then the LA if they decide to home school.

Do you know if the kids are receiving zoom tutoring? Because if so someone external will be interacting with them daily and will have a much better idea of how they are.

I would expect that if the teen was struggling with the isolation she would be reaching out to friends more, not less. Do you know if the teen has ed ASD or anything? I only asked because I do and I bloody LOVED lockdown!! The break from social anxieties was utter bliss! My son did too.

That said, if you're really worried then it might be worth giving SS a call but I'd imagine CV kids are still receiving medical care and Doctors routinely report to SS if they think there may be an issue.

There are more people still isolating than we realise, I think.

This could be truly harrowing for the family.

This is a lesser evil in my eyes to the children suffering out of sight/mind of everyone else.

If someone is brave enough to report a family to social services they need to be brave enough to reasonably address the issues directly with the parents

Totally disagree with this. They aren't trained to do so, it's not their job, they miss lots of warning signs.

It looks like there's a lot of projection on this thread, but like it or not, 2 and a half years is a very long time to be totally out of sight of the world and someone in authority should be aware. That it may be traumatic for the family isn't a good enough reason to not do so. We have SS for a reason.

Actual proper LOL at "I am a scientist and can put the letters after my name"!!

Seriously though - your first paragraph shows your complete lack of understanding of many of the issues. 1. The 10 days isolation isn't just about the cost of you personally isolating - it's the cost of you not isolating and spreading it to all and sundry. The subsequent cost of hospitals being overwhelmed. More and more people being off work ill. 2. Having covid alone does not give you sufficient nor long lasting immunity (especially to variants other than the one you had) but I'm glad you bothered to get vaccinated anyway and 3. You might have experienced a 48 hour illness but that doesn't mean others will too. Hospitalisations are rising again now (especially in the South East) as BA4 and BA5 are increasing. Most people are vaccinated, but most were vaccinated long enough ago that they are no longer fully protected. Just because the press claims Omicron is mild it doesn't make it true.You are also completely ignoring the impact that Long Covid has both on individuals and the economy.

As for "Is it really fair to keep a teenager isolated to save a sibling when it will have to be forever" - again - you clearly don't understand protecting the vulnerable. You isolate until an illness is either not so prevalent in society and/or you are well protected against it. Nasal vaccines, not based on the spike protein, are coming and should be much more variant proof. If we didn't have such a useless government we wouldn't have such high prevalence and it would be easier for the vulnerable to venture out - it's all about choices. Other countries have managed to balance protections/the economy far better than we have and the UK government could learn a lot from those countries (if they weren't so utterly sure that they were the "best" already).

There's absolutely no reason why it would have to be "forever". Also - have you considered the possibility that the teenager might love and care for their sibling and be keen to protect them? Imagine the guilt they would feel if they brought covid home and it killed their sibling - is that going to be good for their mental health? I've already read about one case of a child killing themselves as the guilt they felt from infecting their parent (who died) was too much.

Finally - "I know DS will have many happy memories which the DD in the OP will be lacking for the last 2.5 years" - maybe your child would be miserable at home with you - but that doesn't mean that all families have miserable children. My kids would like to be out and about more, yes, but they are very happy kids with many wonderful memories that we have made since starting shielding. This idea that kids can only be happy with their peers is bizarre and sad. The damage to my kids from the vulnerable family member dying would be significantly worse than the damage that isolating could cause.

It won't be forever and in the meantime they are learning about resilience, about finding the good in hard times and making many happy memories with both their parents. The idea that it's better to just get it over with and have the vulnerable person die so that the kids can go out with their friends is utterly bizarre. That the lives of disabled/vulnerable folks means so little to some has been one of the most depressing things about the last couple of years.

surely the evidence that the teen is struggling is that she's not keeping up her previous friendships? I'd report, it may be the family do need more support, I'm sure you can report in a way such as you think the family needs more support or the DD needs more support etc.

I can see both sides - any virus is dangerous for someone vulnerable, but a teenage girl being isolated isn't great either. Yes we don't have perfect information - if this girl has a thriving new friendship group I'm sure this can be simply demonstrated.

There's absolutely no reason why it would have to be "forever"

What would signal an end to it is a reasonable question for SS to ask.

my view would be if you genuinely have legitimate concerns, then you do something about them. How often do we here of cases where things have gone wrong and then it emerges there were concerns because nobody wanted to rock the boat/upset anyone/cause trouble for that family? If there are concerns- and children not being seen out of the home- even socially distanced, outdoor meet-ups with a friend- is a cause for concern, in my opinion.

i suspect these parents have got into a something or a rabbit hole, completely terrified to do things/change what they are doing in case they make the wrong decision and their child becomes ill. I understand the fear and concern for their disabled child, but it doesn’t mean they are right to be so cautious. And there is also a small possibility that there is more to the problem than extremely cautious/anxious parents, one which is a little more concerning- who knows as the children haven’t been seen out of the house in so long? I’m not for a minute saying there must be something untoward/sinister- but I do think there is reasonable grounds for concern about the children and whether their needs are being met- completely socially isolating the majority of children would be detrimental to their health and development, frankly. I imagine their education may be suffering to some extent too.

I would raise my concerns, in your shoes.

Well perhaps you are right, and I’m wrong, I suppose knowing what sort of cases are usually get reported to and investigated by SS has left me very surprised how quickly people would reach for this option. In my social circles this would be an extraordinary option to go for, clearly judging by thread it’s far more of a social norm to contact social services than I realised. It feels quite dystopian to me but maybe I’m being over dramatic, I would just hate it to happen to me or anyone I care about.

keeping up with friendships is hard if the friends (and their families) think precautions for covid aren’t needed anymore. Teens move on and if the rest of them are all meeting up in person she may well feel better off with new friends who understand her position.

One parent and her daughter not seeing them doesn’t mean they aren’t seeing anyone. Going to SS would be a massive overreaction.

I know that for most people covid isn’t a concern anymore, but please do understand that your understanding of the risks for those who are vulnerable will not be as good as the understanding of those vulnerable people themselves, who will be working with their consultants and following proper scientific advise, not just listening to boris and reading the news.

There has to come a point when the other DC are considered too. Two whole years completely out of contact with their friends and with no socialising at all is going to do god knows what to their mental health now and in the future. How long will they continue this? Because we will never reach 100% herd immunity. We don't have full herd immunity for any condition. I also suspect, if covid is a danger for this child, so is flu, a common cold might be enough to cause severe illness, even a bad dose of chicken pox. There is a balance that has to be reached.

@FoodSchmood how does she meet new friends? She's not going anywhere or doing anything to be able to do that.

There is a balance to be struck here, and to do nothing would be the wrong thing thing.

• You do not know if they are sheltering with good reason.


• You do not know if they have become shut-ins for the wrong reasons.


• You do not know what mitigations may be in place to maintain the children's social skills, although the loss of contact with peers and friends does not sound positive on this front.


• You do not know whether the appropriate services, schools, etc. are aware, involved, and already providing support.

If you know the school they went to, you can speak to the Student Welfare Officer. Or you can speak to children's services at the Local Authority about your concerns. Neither of these conversations will have a negative outcome if things are ok. But if things aren't ok, silence won't make it better.

If I were you, I would raise concerns. With the daughter's previous school first, then social services. No matter how vulnerable the sibling, this family simply cannot continue to socially isolate their other children. It's seriously detrimental to mental health and development. They have to be encouraged to find a way to allow their other kids out into the world. They need help.

The same way my family has; online. There are growing networks of CEV people. My kids have friends that they play games with online, video chat with and write letters too (paper and pen, old school style). There are now physical meet ups amongst equally cautious vulnerable folks happening too.

Given that the OP refers to the kids parents having “bunker mentality” In her OP I can well imagine that they’ve been phased out deliberately as they aren’t supportive. If you aren’t vulnerable it’s easy to get the mistaken impression that it is now safe and it gets really tedious explaining over and over again to well meaning people why you are still shielding/taking precautions.

If she really cares she would just reach out to them with her concerns rather than report them. She loses nothing by trying to talk to them. There’s a whole lot of assumptions being made based on not very much here. As mentioned upthread when kids come out of school for home Ed they are known to the council, who will be in touch with them already. They aren’t “hidden”. A child with CP will have ongoing medical care so their doctors will be seeing/talking to them too.

As soon as you let the other kids out you can no longer protect the vulnerable one. It’s that simple. You’re asking them to risk the life of the vulnerable child to enable the others out to socialise.

I know this is hard to understand for families without vulnerable children/members. It’s a hellish choice between the life of one child and the social life/development of the others. This is why CEV families are so angry about the government just letting covid rip and ending all protections. We are having to try to create ways of living that protect the physical and mental health of our families and it won’t look like the lives that other people lead and it will be hard to understand from the outside.

If you aren’t vulnerable it’s easy to get the mistaken impression that it is now safe and it gets really tedious explaining over and over again to well meaning people why you are still shielding/taking precautions.

The issue is that it never will be 'safe' from Covid, just as it's not safe from all kinds of other things.

When there are other children in the mix, it's reasonable to ask how long families intend to continue this way of living? There aren't any notable breakthroughs on the horizon as far as I'm aware. Covid will become endemic, if it isn't already so in the U.K. I think it's fair enough to ask what the longer term plan is and what would would prompt a change?

Presumably the children have been removed from school due to this. They will be known to local authorities because of this. And they will be checked up on annually. I've home educated for about 7 years now and I submit a report every year . I think op should raise concerns directly tbh. Ss is massively underfunded and it's not known how isolated they are really is it.

First of all, as already mentioned upthread, while covid rates are high it isn’t safe. When they are lower and you are less likely to be exposed it is safer to go out. This was more likely to happen before the gov ended all restrictions. Now it’s much harder to achieve,

The nasal spray vaccines are already in test, should be out next year hopefully and in combination with MRNA vaccines should confer a higher level of longer lasting protection that is much more variant proof.

This is how vulnerable people survive a pandemic.

If mental health is your concern, please do consider the impact of a dead sibling from covid brought home by the teenager from school/ socialising. That is what you are asking them to risk by saying they need to get back out in the world/let the siblings out.

That ridiculous. Dd has severe cp and is back at school vaccinated as are the rest of us. Know plenty of cp kids who were pretty mild when they caught it

Exactly this. Totally agree.

You're right @FoodSchmood ... those of us without vulnerable children might not understand. But my question to you is... what about common colds, flu, tummy bugs, norovirus, meningitis, chicken pox, etc etc? What did families with vulnerable kids do before the pandemic to mitigate these risks? Did they seal off their families from the outside world to be 100% safe from the multitudes of viruses and bacteria out there?

Nothing is 100% safe. Just as families with vulnerable children lived with an element of risk before, they must surely learn to do so again. Covid is now so much better understood, there are treatments. It's become endemic and rightly so.

What cannot be underplayed is the impact all of this has had on the mental health of especially teenagers. The epidemic of anxiety, eating disorders, social isolation and depression is becoming clearer with the day.

@FoodSchmood by the way, I have a relative whose DD has CP. And so do our neighbours' DD. Neither family has continued shielding. Their kids are at school and out in the world (including the CP children).

First of all, as already mentioned upthread, while covid rates are high it isn’t safe. When they are lower and you are less likely to be exposed it is safer to go out.

What's low enough for you though? They've come down very significantly, but are likely to fluctuate up and down for many years. What's your level and what are you basing that on?

This was more likely to happen before the gov ended all restrictions. Now it’s much harder to achieve

Well rates have actually declined since restrictions were lifted, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. There's zero evidence that the light touch restrictions were making a difference and that's across many countries.

I've been investigated by SS a few times (3? Possibly 4. Can't remember. All cases closed after an initial look, all for mental health reasons). It's a bit stressful, but it's not that bloody bad. Really not the awful, life altering, desperate choice some are making it appear here.

A situation where children have become entirely invisible, are suffering various health needs and see no one sounds exactly the sort of situation they should be aware of. They'll phone and possibly visit, not start issuing court orders. The older DD with mental health issues might get some help out of it.

The nasal spray vaccines are already in test, should be out next year hopefully and in combination with MRNA vaccines should confer a higher level of longer lasting protection that is much more variant proof.

Should they? The MRNA vaccines are already extremely effective against severe disease.

"common colds, flu, tummy bugs, norovirus, meningitis, chicken pox"
Colds - way less serious than covid - pose far reduced threat.
Flu - way less serious than covid - but we vaccinate for that and avoid contact with anyone showing symptoms. All our friends and family know that we are vulnerable and know to stay away if they are sick. If we get on a bus and someone is visibly sick, we get off. We avoid crowded indoor settings in winter when flu is most common. We manage the risk.
Tummy bugs - kids are required to be off school for 24-48 hours (depending on their schools rules) to avoid them spreading these bugs in school. Tummy bugs are far less serious than covid but are now subject to stricter rules - does that make sense to you?
Norovirus - again - you are asked not to come in to school/medical settings if you have Noro / while you are contagious.
Meningitis - if I knew an infectious type of meningitis was prevalent somewhere I would never go there nor let my kids go there. Would you send your kids to sit in a room with someone who had a contagious form of meningitis?
Chicken pox - my kids are vaccinated and we stay away from anyone with it. As with tummy bugs/norovirus - people with chicken pox are required to isolate until they are no longer infectiious, even though it is far less serious for most vulnerable people than Covid would be. It's not a logical system!

This "covid is endemic" claim is not supported by scientists - nor is what it means for it to be endemic. People say that to support the "we've just got to get on with it" statements.

Teenagers mental health was already appalling before the pandemic and I don't disagree that covid has had an impact on that. But I do disagree that the only solution is to let kids out to mix no matter the impact on vulnerable family members.

As I've said upthread more than once - we don't know just how isolated this kid is - we only have one other parents view from afar. We know they were previously in school and will therefore be known to the EOTAS team already plus their medical team.

I'm not saying do nothing - I'm saying that Social Services intervention is not the first step here. I'm saying that SS involvement could make an already horrifically difficult situation even worse. What does the OP lose in reaching out to this parent and talking to them? Everyone is talking as though this is a teenager being kept at home, against their will, with no contact with the outside world. We simply don't know that. It's a massive assumption. She may well be in touch with other CEV kids online and happy having peers who understand the life she is currently leading. It's the "Oh this family are nuts and have lost perspective and have just got to get back out in the world "narrative that I massively object to.